Chinese dragon vase - can anyone share any insight?

I don't expect this to be some priceless antiquity - I just thought it was beautiful (in its own way), and had to bring it home.

I'm curious about the dragon motif (water dragon?), and the meaning (if any) of the symbols on the sides. I can make out a Pisces-style fish symbol, sun symbol, lotus blossom, and a tall jar, all surrounded by ribbons (?). I have no idea what the other four symbols are.

I'm guessing its import ware. I read the "China" marks section on Gotheborg, and this could be as late as 1960s / 70s?

Also - and this is a long-standing question I have about pottery, not just Chinese pottery - when I wiped it off and the clay got wet it gave off a slight smell that I can only describe as spicy or musty mint toothpaste. I've also noticed this smell before on some Mexican pottery pieces. Does anyone know what causes it - clay type, the firing process, or is it the glaze?

Here are some pics - they're pretty large in size (but not filesize) so the detail shows better. I'd appreciate any thoughts anyone might have (including possible maker and/or age, of course). Thanks!

 

What's the size of your vase UncleChuck?

Did a Google search with the keywords that popped into my head and found two paneled hexagon shaped dragon vases like your's. They both have a main color of yellow, didn't find a green one. They both look like they came from the same mold, though. Dragons spewing water from their mouths.

I think this all caps CHINA mark was used before WWII, just somewhere in the back of my mind from old research project, didn't try looking it up again. One of the descriptions below is listed as "pre 1920".

Google Image Search: CHINESE SANCAI DRAGON VASE
https://www.google.com/search?q=CHI...XuVVar2BYPwoASt6J6oBQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#imgrc=_

Chinese Porcelain Molded & High Relief Dragon Vase
Pre 1920, $400.00
"Chinese Sancai colored Porcelain Vase, Hexagonal shape and molded and high relief Dragon and treasures on yellow glazed background, 7" high, 4" wide x 3" deep-maximum measurement. All the molded decorations are high quality and well placed in its places, impressed mark on the bottom "China", no damages or restorations."
http://www.trocadero.com/stores/lil...nese-Porcelain-Molded-High-Relief-Dragon-Vase

Antique Chinese Sancai Porcelain Dragon Vase
Lot 78C live auction started on Dec 14, 2013
"Estimate $500 – $600 Starting Bid $20
Buyer's Premium 21% [An additional service charge for which the buyer is responsible, to be added to the price of the item.]
Antique Chinese Sancai Porcelain Vase with Dragon Decoration. Early 20 century. Ht: 8 inches."
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/22724234_antique-chinese-sancai-porcelain-dragon-vase

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That one on Trocadero looks like the real deal.
Uncles looks like a poor copy of that design.

 

Hmm, they look prety close to me, though I like the colors on the Trocadero vase better.

 

Look harder Pat !
The Troca is raised and the design very exacting, while the other is muddied and out of focus...and missing some design elements.

 

Photos can make a design look more or less raised, so I'm not convinced that's different. I think the glaze was applied more skillfully on the Trocadero vase, but that wouldn't necessarily mean it was produced by a different company.

Here are the two vases side-by-side. The proportions of the elements look slightly different, but that could be due to the camera's angle or lens.

 

I agree, Pat. The molded elements are the same. It's the differences in glaze color and placement that make them look different.

 

Damn fhoto's !!!
Yes Pat....I guess you're right !!
I thought one looked much sloppier than the other.......now they both look about the same !!
Thanks for setting me straight !!

 

I wasn't sure, either, until I actually looked at them side-by-side.

 

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. Laura, I googled until my eyes crossed, and never came up with the links you found. Thanks.

And I apologize for forgetting the measurements - it is 8.5" high, 3-1/8" x 2-3/16" at the rim, and 2-7/8" x 2-1/4" at the base. It's about 4.75" at the widest point.

I agree, the glaze on mine is much sloppier. And certain elements of the design are not molded as crisply, OR the base green glaze is pooled around their edges (sloppy).

The other thing I noticed is that the mark on mine is raised (embossed) instead of incised / impressed. I don't know what that adds to the puzzle...

Here are a couple of close-ups of the dragons. It seems the most detailed of out all the separate pieces. I think you can click to get the full-size pics.

 

The Troc. site says the yellow one is pre-1920 but my eyes can't buy that.

 

Peter Combs, well-known MA dealer, has many videos regarding Chinese porcelain on You-tube. Here's one about fake vs. real:

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I think you have to look at a whole lot of Chinese porcelain to really recognize some of the details he's pointing out-I found it difficult. But he looks at decoration color, artistry, color of the basic porcelain, how carefully a brushed-on reign mark is done, the foot rim, etc. He mentions the Sackler Gallery, not far from me, and I think I'll watch a few more of his videos then re-visit that place.

 

Thanks for the video link - that will be something informative I can watch this weekend, instead of just junk on Netflix.

 

A quick follow-up question to this, if you folks don't mind:

Would the decoration on this vase be termed "susancai"? From the minimal research I've done, it appears that "sancai" is for 3-color historical/ancient earthenware/pottery pieces (Tang dynasty, 600s CE). And "susancai" is the modern wannabe glazing technique used on porcelain export ware?

Sancai: http://gotheborg.com/glossary/sancai.shtml#B
Susancai: http://gotheborg.com/glossary/susancai.shtml

Also, I watched an interesting documentary on YouTube about the search for the original sancai kiln locations. It's a Chinese produciton, but the translation subtitles are pretty good & easily understandable:

Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Part 4:

 

I came across this post researching a piece that I have. I believe my piece is much older due to several factors. It does not have "China" or any other marking indicating time period of manufacture, the glaze has a slight iridescent quality to it, and the overall design indicates earlier production. I have trying to attach a photograph, but to no avail. Any help or information would be greatly appreciated!

 

Welcome to the forum Bobby You should start your own thread about your piece, that way more people will look at it (this one is a couple of years old)
there is information in the link below that hopefully will help you with resizing your photos for the forum.
https://www.antiquers.com/threads/getting-photos-to-meet-1mb-requirement.25585/

 

So, it is possible that one is made from a well-worn mold, hence the less crisp detailing. Or, it is possible that a mold was made from an existing vase which would also account for dulled details. Also, it would be slightly different in size. Just my thoughts...