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Featured Carved Necklace Help

Discussion in 'Jewelry' started by cxgirl, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. cxgirl

    cxgirl Well-Known Member

    Hi All,
    Trying to figure out what this necklace is made of? 15 1/2"L, discolouration on some of the beads, how would I clean this or just leave it alone? I don't think it is ivory, maybe some kind of nut?
    any information appreciated
    thanks for looking:)
    DSCF9324.jpg DSCF9325.jpg DSCF9326.jpg DSCF9328.jpg DSCF9331.jpg
     
  2. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

  3. cxgirl

    cxgirl Well-Known Member

    Wonderful, thank-you AJ:)
     
    Christmasjoy, Bronwen, judy and 2 others like this.
  4. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    This was a common style of rose bead necklace, typically made of ivory. Tagua nut does not have the striations visible in the smooth oval beads.
     
  5. Marko

    Marko Well-Known Member

    Methinks I also saw ivory in the oval beads....
     
    Christmasjoy, Bronwen and cxgirl like this.
  6. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    Same here. Ivory. I was hoping for meerschaum, aka a very porous stone used to carve pipes but alas 'tis probably ivory.
     
    Christmasjoy, Bronwen and cxgirl like this.
  7. cxgirl

    cxgirl Well-Known Member

    thanks 2manybooks, Marko & evelyb30:) I was hoping it wouldn't be ivory because there is no cross-hatching, guess this is not the case.
     
  8. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I think you can still hope.;) Tagua is very tricky. It does show striations occasionally, but no cross-hatching:
    [​IMG]
    https://www.antiquers.com/threads/hope-this-is-bakelite.40346/#post-836681

    [​IMG]
    https://www.wood-database.com/tagua-nut/

    The beads have an ivory look, but the carving is of the quality generally seen on less exclusive materials like bone or tagua. These last two materials were used a lot for this type of necklace.
    The greenish, almost translucent tinge of some of the beads is also seen on tagua. I have never seen that on ivory. The bead on the left in the detail below has that, along with some pretty wide banding, which is not ivory-like imo. And if ivory, I would expect cross-hatching in the centre of the bead on the right:

    upload_2019-9-1_11-26-15.jpeg

    The striation on this bead is interrupted by a burr (burl) kind of growth pattern, which is not ivory-like:

    upload_2019-9-1_11-31-2.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  9. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    I wish not, but I am on the ivory train.

    I do grant that seeing roses cut in that manner puts me on the ivory train almost every time, without even thinking.

    So I could miss something.

    But googling: antique elephant oval ivory beads

    I'm still on the ivory train.
     
    2manybooks, Bronwen and i need help like this.
  10. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    You mean like this one?
    [​IMG]
     
  11. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    841F0BF2-EDA2-4A86-98B1-0AF2003C890B.jpeg Maybe irrelevant, but the smooth beads seem awfully jagged on the ends. Maybe more photos would help?
     
  12. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Yes, I noticed the chipped ends as well, which seems unusual for ivory. Schreger lines are most visible on cross sections of a tusk, and may not appear on sections cut along the vertical axis of a tusk. Their presence is a clear indicator of elephant ivory, but their absence does not exclude ivory.
     
  13. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    We could use a whole thread dedicated to the question Is This Ivory?, it comes up so often & we have answered it so many times, both yea & nay, with reasoning & photos.

    I agree with everything that has been said. My 2 cents. I agree with AJ that the plain beads come from the vegetable kingdom, although I think there are alternatives to tagua. Have seen enough souvenir necklaces made with seeds - often dyed to an unnatural color - to see that possibility here too, au naturel. Think these were not cut to shape, they grew this way. I'm not trying to pin down the exact species, these "Job's tears" beads are just an example:

    [​IMG]

    As for the carved beads, none of the photos show them well enough to say anything with certainty. Like jivvy, I associate them with ivory. However, given the company these are keeping, have to question that. They could be carved tagua nut. As well as I can see, I spot no growth lines of any sort.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
    Christmasjoy, komokwa, cxgirl and 3 others like this.
  14. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    I think what we are finding is that it is often very difficult to distinguish certain materials from photographs alone. Distinguishing features may be very subtle, and difficult to photograph. On these particular beads, I have suggested that they are "typically" made of ivory, but also that the chipping at the ends may argue against ivory. @Any Jewelry feels that the striations visible could be consistent with tagua nut. I was at first resistant to this idea, but I have closely examined an example of tagua that I have in my collection, and have found that on some surfaces there are very faint striations, appearing somewhat like finger print swirls. These were only visible on a few of the multiple surfaces. They do not appear as distinct as the striations on these beads. I also see merit in @Bronwen's suggestion that the oval beads, at least, may be a different plant material altogether.
    Here are photos I was able to take of the tagua (I particularly like this example because the carver kept the outer shell of the nut, making it clear what the material is):
    Tagua nut birds - 1 (640x640).jpg
    Tagua nut birds - 3 (640x601).jpg Tagua nut birds - 2 (605x640).jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  15. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Lovely piece, is it from Ecuador?
     
  16. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    I have no idea, actually. I found it at a little local estate sale. No label or markings of any kind.
     
    Christmasjoy, Any Jewelry and Bronwen like this.
  17. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    It at least requires in focus super macros for small things like beads. I sometimes have to distinguish ivory from non-ivory when assessing cameos:

    https://www.pinterest.com/cameotimescom/ivory-cameos-reliefs/

    Think the main question here is ivory/not-ivory. I'm confident the plain beads are not ivory; have to hold judgment on the others.

    Doubt it adds any info, but I have shown a necklace of MOP beads with the same kind of old plastic screw clasp:

    MOP beads.jpg
    Photo was taken under fluorescent light that makes things look much more yellow than they are. From a little distance away, you might think they were pearls, just as, from a little distance away, you might think OP is ivory.
     
  18. cxgirl

    cxgirl Well-Known Member

    thanks for all the replies folks:)
    here are some more photos. I can't see any striations or lines on the rose carved beads, not much flat space on them.
    DSCF9477.jpg DSCF9461.jpg DSCF9334.jpg DSCF9415.jpg DSCF9450.jpg DSCF9470.jpg
     
  19. cxgirl

    cxgirl Well-Known Member

    thanks for all the information AJ:) I was looking around last night and feel they aren't ivory.
    Thank-you Bronwen, they do look like seeds:) Yes, no striations/lines on the rose carved beads that I can find.
     
  20. cxgirl

    cxgirl Well-Known Member

    that is a lovely piece 2manybooks, I like that some bark is still in place:)
     
    Christmasjoy, 2manybooks and Bronwen like this.
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