Bronze Deterioration or Applied Patina Shang Dynasty

I was perusing the AMICA library, good site, and came upon some bronze censers and vases, stuff like that, from the Shang Dynasty and I started noticing the way on some of them the patina looked like an extrusion , waxy, like it was applied which reminded me of this vase that I've had for a while now. Anyway, it has the same extrusions as the ones online, the and the decorations along with the handles which, to me, look like the toatie eyes which was the thing back then. Seems to me like it was made in a mold, along the lines lined up with the handles seem to be the seams, bottom I have no idea. Measures 7-3/4"H x 1-15/16"M x 2-5/16"F. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Nice pics.....many many nice pics !!

 

Yeah, sorry.

 

Provenance? I’m no ex-spurt but in trying to judge whether yours is antique or not I’d look at the rim of the base among other things. It is sharp as a razor inside and out, for me anyway casting doubt on whether it was ever used. Don’t most antique Chinese bronzes have a mark on the bottom? I’d suggest taking it to a free appraisal session held periodically by some museums and auction houses. The patina could look 100% right in photos but the better appraisers and museum folks know how to tell good from bad.

 

Thanks for mentioning that site, I’m looking at it tonite.

http://amica.davidrumsey.com/luna/s...rt=crn2,ocs,amicoid&QuickSearchA=QuickSearchA

 

No, they didn't start doing marks till the Ming dynasty, none before that. As to the edges, they're not sharp but, at the same time, they're not worn down.

 

Very very careful about these pieces, can you believe this specific one is at least over 3100 years old?
There's replica antique bronzewares, which are almost exactly same as real ones.

There are 4 ways to reproduce these antiques. The best way to reproduce from what I know is people make a new replica exactly same as real one. Then sunk in specific chemicals for over 7 days. Take out, stay under sun for 15-20 days (under specific temperature and humidity.) After that, they bury these replica into the tomb where real bronzeware are found. Last step, they plant specific plants on to the tomb and let roots get around the bronzewares. That last step is what they called "raise".(Just like raise a baby.) This step is very important and it will cost 3 to 7 years, because plant roots can be partly attached to the bronzeware after this step. After it took out, it is almost a real one and only very few experienced chinese experts can ID them.(No auction house or museum experts can ID them, only very few tomb raiders and replica professions can ID them).

 

Very interesting, I guess thats the reason I had it on the backburner, too complicated. Regardless, I do believe it is that old. Too bad it costs so much to have it checked out.

 

I am sorry, I didn't mean to offend. But I did see so many Chinese bronze replicas. And I also have a bunch of them which I collected many years without any valuable real ones(only have some real Spring and Autumn period arrow heads. )

 

Found the similarities researching a kendi jug which i believe is also from then.

 

This is an interesting piece I never seen it in bronze ware. And it looks fairly new to me.
Mostly they are stoneware or porcelain.

What about the mouth rim, neck rim and interior?

 

Depth and width of lines are very even.

 

this rim is never seen on bronze jar or pots before Han Dynasty.

 

I would like to see pictures of the connection in this part if you can. And interior. Thanks.

 

Sorry, it is porcelain, i should have pointed it out. As to pictures of the interior of the original one I have, closeups of the handle ill do in the morning, thanks

 

No comment on my request for provenance? With these fake-able items provenance becomes very important. If you only want to use the objects for home decoration, no provenance needed obviously, but if you want to sell them as significant historical artifacts, provenance is essential.

 

No, no provenance. Wasn't presented as such except that it was in a collection of oriental vases. Here are the pictures of the handles.

 

I’ll comment on your mention of the apparent mold lines on handles etc. Such lines would almost certainly mean the body of the vase was made using a two-piece pattern or mold, a relatively modern (the last few hundred years) practice. As far as I know, ancient Chinese bronzes would have been made with the lost wax method, which leaves no such lines.

 

They were cast using ceramic piece molds, built around a clay model. The molds were imprinted with designs from the model, then the model was cut or carved down to allow for bronze to be poured in the empty space between the model and the molds. Each piece was unique, since the ceramic piece molds had to be broken to release the bronze inside. The handles were applied afterwards.
This is from http://education.asianart.org/explo...ty-approx-1500‒1050-bce-ritual-bronze-vessels
Oh, thanks for your iron grate purchase.

 

Re the grate, yes, looking fwd to getting that!

Thx for link to the method. I’d be a little surprised if they didn’t use lost wax at any time, so much easier than the method described. Lost wax also uses a one-time ceramic mold that’s destroyed to release the bronze casting; the wax is melted out before pouring in the molten bronze. Anyway neither method should leave a visible seam, should it?