Atocha Shipwreck coin: Souvenir piece or old? Real silver?

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by jollyrancher, Jun 26, 2018.

  1. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    I guess this is a souvenir of a piece of eight from the Spanish shipwreck Atocha: the piece is marked Atocha 1622 (see second photo), but it looks old, and looks and feels like real silver. Anyone know anything about this particular piece? I can't get a handle on the value. Thanks! IMG_2098.jpg IMG_2099.jpg
     
    Christmasjoy and Any Jewelry like this.
  2. Hollyblue

    Hollyblue Well-Known Member

    Photos not clear enough to see what exactly it is...

    Top photo remnants of gold plating at 10 o'clock,plating on frame falling off,lead/tin solder on tips of "prongs"?

    Bottom photo solder ball right of 1622 and below prong,erosion/solder top left edge,separating edge of coin 7/8 o'clock ?
     
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  3. daveydempsey

    daveydempsey Moderator Moderator

    It looks like a Mexico Half Real Cob coin
    with Phililip IV monogram.

    1622 through to 1662 is correct for that design/strike.

    Whether it is a Atocha shipwreck coin is debatable.

    The fact that it has been stamped at a later date will have lost any numismatic value.

    It will have to be tested for silver content.

    There are few sites selling these items, the prices are stupid.
    Big con if you ask me.

    https://store.melfisher.com/collections/authentic-atocha-coins-1
     
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  4. terry5732

    terry5732 Well-Known Member

    Real Atocha coins were uncirculated or nearly so.
     
  5. johnnycb09

    johnnycb09 Well-Known Member

    Terry I have to sorta disagree because at one time they were selling them and I had one. I bought it at the museum itself in the 80s(?) Mine wasnt stamped but did come with a coa from the museum itself. As an aside my dad could have been an investor with Mel Fisher back in the 70s but decided not to.My mother was FURIOUS when Fisher hit it big a few years later.
    Holy Moley ! I just read the prices they are asking ! I paid like $150,and I thought that was high then !
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  6. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Guys, thanks for your comments. I have to say, though, that I am STUPID about this piece. Even after reading your comments, I can't make heads or tails about what it is. The fact that it is stamped "Atocha 1622" on the second photo, top left, means what exactly? I guess I will take this to my local coin place, but was hoping to have a ballpark as to what this is and what it's worth. I'm kind of clueless on this because I'm not familiar with coins at all. Thanks so much for any additional information, served up "dummy style" for me, please! :)
    Also, what does the R&S monogram mean on the one side? I have looked for examples of this particular monogram on Spanish coins and can't find any like it.
     
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  7. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Or maybe I should contact that website with the atocha coins?
     
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  8. daveydempsey

    daveydempsey Moderator Moderator

    Its not R&S its Phililip IV monogram
    R is a P
     
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  9. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Thanks Davey Dempsey!
     
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  10. johnnycb09

    johnnycb09 Well-Known Member

    Did you read Daveys reply carefully upthread ? The fact its stamped is a red flag as no true coin from the wreck would have been.Davey knows coins,you can take his word on it. :)
     
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  11. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Well, yes I did, but in his response he said it was debatable. If it's a replica, I don't even know if it's an authentic replica from that website, or just a replica of a replica.
     
  12. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    That stamping is really strange.
     
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  13. bluumz

    bluumz Quite Busy

    I worked for Mel Fisher's Treasure Salvors the summer of 1985. I started with them about two weeks after they found the "mother lode" when they were hiring on extra help, as the cook on the search boat "The Bookmaker", a 42ft Hatteras. At one point, my boat was in dry dock for repairs so I was put to work cleaning coins and silver bars. Lots of great memories from that summer! (And I finally got to re-visit Key West and tour Treasure Salvors last summer... and shed a few tears of nostalgia!) I even still have my crew T-shirt. :)

    As well as selling authentic Atocha coins from the shipwreck, TS (and others) sells replicas made from scrap silver. Possibly your coin is one of those. That stamp would not have been done on a genuine Atocha shipwreck coin.

    My ID card that got me into the area where we docked the boats:
    kwredeveopment1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  14. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    Very informative bluumz! Thank you for that info. :)
     
  15. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    Never ceases to amaze me , the massive amount of knowledge & experience the collection of members here brings to bear on any situation....!!! :happy::happy::happy::woot::woot::woot:
     
  16. jollyrancher

    jollyrancher Active Member

    I know, right? And how cool that bluumz got to experience finding the treasure! WOW
     
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  17. Shangas

    Shangas Underage Antiques Collector and Historian

    Interesting thread, but I agree - to stamp it with "ATOCHA 1622" kinda really hurts the coin. I call fake on this. If it was a real coin, surely they would've known that defacing it like that in any way, would hurt its desirability.

    It reminds me of a lady I saw at an antiques fair once. She had all these interesting things for sale. Nobody was buying what she had, because like an idiot, she'd written all the prices right across the tops and fronts of her wares - in permanent marker.
     
  18. SBSVC

    SBSVC Well-Known Member

    I, too, think that this is a replica, but I certainly am not an expert!

    I sold a replica coin once, myself, but definitely AS a replica. It had the word COPY stamped right on it!
    img0 (4).jpg
     
  19. Shangas

    Shangas Underage Antiques Collector and Historian

    I would see nothing wrong with selling a replica as a replica (or even accidentally selling a replica as the real thing) but to knowingly sell a fake as a real...uh...reale...would obviously be dishonest and stuff.
     
    SBSVC likes this.
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