Featured ANY COWBOYS (OR COWGIRLS) OUT THERE? NEED HELP IDENTIFYING VINTAGE ENGLISH SADDLE

I found this at a thrift store today. I grew up with horses in NC, but I rode western not English. I know most names are under the leg flap by the cinch buckle, but all this one has is the Roman numeral II.
The back also appears higher than usual + it seems to have extra large padding built in underneath the saddle which I've never seen before.
I can't find any saddle makers with II as their mark - can anyone tell who made this and/or what kind of saddle it is?
Any idea of age (it's still dusty as heck - it was stored for a while before being donated to VA thrift store)
Is the leather work suggestive of a custom made saddle?
Thanks; I appreciate any help.

 

I don't have any tooled saddles but do/did ride english and the saddles we have are labeled under the small flap.

 

I know - usually they do; mine has only a Roman numeral II - photos show under flap, then under the flap under the flap(!) and then the padding - no name

 

I guess I'm not seeing a photo under the small flap. Here is one of ours, a very dirty one.

You saddle has a very deep seat like you sometimes see in dressage saddle but the flap is different. Under the large flap yours has two straps and a ring which is different than saddles I'm used to but then I'm hardly an expert.

 

Sorry I didn't post it - there is just a buckle under each small flap, no name - here

 

Any idea what kind of saddle it is?

 

Sorry, no. I don't think I've ever seen anyone in a tooled English saddle around here.....just the stuffy plain stuff.

Something about the construction reminds me of a saddle I bought awhile back from somewhere online. It's down at the barn and I'll look tomorrow to see if there is any name on it to get me a start at searching.

 

And I've never seen a hand tooled English saddle before either!!!! Not a Hunt seat with the legs going down so straight, wonder if it's from somewhere abroad......also wonder if it might be for Dressage. I rode a little bit of Saddle Seat, but don't remember the saddle having all that padding under it.....I thought it was more like a pancake!!! I wonder if @SBSVC might be able to help.............she has someone she could ask!!!!!

 

Sorry, I mis-read @say_it_slowly's post......thought You had the Crosby....... Put the Dunce Cap on meeee

 

I can't speak for all Crosby saddles but we have Crosby Prix de Nations and you can see on the one above that in addition to the name plaque it also has the name on the button.

 

Not like any English saddles we every had! Looks like there is a name in the leather on the 3rd pictture. Can you read it?
Patd

 

Could it be a jumping saddle....

 

hello j m ... looks similar shape , style as an australian stock saddle although we dont seem to tool them out here.....the brass hook thing under the flap is for the stirrup strap and is designed to release if falling off with foot still in stirrup...sometimes it works and slips off in an emergency....saves you being dragged along with foot in stirrup as has happened on one occasion with me/... i can see that this has a made in england stud/ brand on it also another lable.. a good deep seat and looks comfortable....others may have other suggestions....regards....pewter2

 

I think it might be a dressage saddle - they have tooling, padding + high back seat?
Also mine measures 13" from top edge of seat back to where pummel would be - the ones I've found have 17" seats; was mine made for a child?

 

oops - it's early; forgot to add links to dressage examples!
https://www.ebay.com/i/263521562218?chn=ps&fl=a

https://www.ebay.com/i/282856340669?chn=ps

 

I know nothing about saddlery (other than being a horse lover as a young girl) but when I look at the mark ("II") I see 2 Ts. There is a maker called Double T but they seem to be Western...worth a look anyway (I didn't go through all the pages). Here is a link to one site that carries them:
http://tacktraders.com/all-saddles/double-t-saddles

 

I don't ride dressage but I believe usually the flap is fairly long and the knee roll fairly pronounced. I don't know if it has a specific purpose and may just be a all purpose saddle with a deep seat. The fact that it has no maker named would worry me.

Something about the way the flap is curved back and the unusual ring between the billets (girth straps) makes me think this is foreign. Sorry that's all I've got on that.

I'm sorry if I confused anyone with the photo of the name tag on one of our saddles but I was just trying to show the location.

I did go look at the saddle (one of two) that I thought reminded me a bit of yours with the deep seat but other than the deep seat and something about under side of the leather they were not terrible similar. Only one of them had a name tag and it was Blue Ridge made in Pakistan. They were the most uncomfortable saddles ever and I ended up using them for lunging.

You probably know that the questions for a saddle are does it fit me, does it fit my horse. A saddle pad can help with the horse fit a bit. If you've never measured an English saddle, you measure from the button on the small flap over the stirrup bar to the center of the cantle. That's the size in inches.

 

When I had horses, I rode Western, so only passing experience with English tack, but this doesn't really look like a dressage saddle to me either (also seems odd that there is no loop or slot for the end of the stirrup strap). That simplistic tooling, including the textured background, looks very similar to leather work from South or Central America...

~Cheryl

 

@patd8643, Did you mean the pictured below area?? If so, that's just dried, crinkled leather area from what I see.......if somewhere else, I'm missing it.....

 

Here is the reply from my daughter, who is off with her BF for a few days (or I would have posted sooner!):

hi mom,

I am always happy to give my two cents when it comes to tack!

My first instinct is that this is a hand/ custom-made (probably 60s or 70s but hard to tell without feeling how crusty the leather is) saddle for a kid and pony.

Without the measurements I can't be entirely sure if that is the case. If I knew how large the seat was (which on a deep-seated saddle like this would be done by measuring from the top of the cantle in the very back to the central rivet by the top of the skirt flap) I'd have a better idea. If the seat is less than 16 in it's definitely a pony saddle!

Based on the suede/ nubuck (since I can't touch it I don't know which it is) seat and the fact that it has a bar in the back for crupper, makes me think it's a pony saddle. That kind of seat is a little more sticky which helps a kid sit properly. Crupper bars are usually on pony saddles, as fat ponies are more likely to have the saddle wiggle around.

The tooling and lack of a brass name plate under the skirt and a lack of any stamping by a brand on the under flaps makes me think it's either a semi custom small Saddlery/ handmade saddle. Those can be really nice and they can be shoddy; it just depends on the stitching and the feel of the leather and the tree. Since the flocking doesn't appear to be coming out... I'd say it's probably at least fairly well made.

Now, the billet for the girth: two Short billets and a ring, looks very strange. That is not like a normal English girth which has three short billets. It's more like a western-style girth without a long billet but with a large ring. That would allow you to put an overgrowth on to keep the saddle from sliding more if it were a really fat pony. In some cases that kind of ring tucked under the flap is a means of attaching a stirrup so that the leather doesn't rub against the inside of the leg along the outside flap, but that's not very common in English saddles at all.

I can absolutely say with confidence that it is definitely not a standard jumping saddle (seat is too deep), a dressage saddle, a saddle seat saddle (the pommel would be cut way back if it were), or a standard Australian saddle.

Now, if the seat is larger than 16 in, I'd gather that it could be some sort of hand-tooled parade saddle perhaps for a Paso Fino or another Spanish style horse, as the Spanish breeders love flair and tooling their leather. Alternatively, the bar in the back for the crupper could also be used for attaching a pack. That and the deep seat would mean that it could be some kind of light endurance saddle - but the lack of padding and knee rolls or blocks on the flaps and the tooling where a knee pad would be, makes me think that it would not be a comfortable saddle for long distance riding. Which again would support the idea that maybe it's some kind of parade saddle.

I hope that was a helpful and not to roundabout way of saying it's either a pony saddle or some kind of parade saddle....

I most likely composed this email using talk to text software. Please excuse any strange spellings, weird word swaps, peculiar punctuation, formatting fumbles, etc.

For those who can make sense of it, there you go!