Antique Photo of Military Gentleman

Hello,

Last Photo I've got to post.

I just wanted some opinions on the age and or the military time period.

Looks to me about "rough riders" time period 1890-1900?

Possibly American Indian Wars?

Any help would be appreciated as always!

Thanks in advance!

 

What is that - behind the man that is second from the left?

 

I believe it's an antique street lamp of some sort.

 

That's what I thought, but since the rest of the background looks like it is out in the middle of nowhere, I was sure.

 

How strange to see a lamp post in what looks like "nowheres ville"? I wish the pic was larger, I LOVE old pics

 

Thanks for making the pic larger, looks like an anchor on the second guy's hat to the left and something on the other guy's hat to his left..also looks like the first guy to the left is holding a cigar.

 

I was gonna ask, are boots that go up that high for riding?

 

I can't see them? Usually the garb would be a bit different if riding a horse if that is what you meant?

 

Wait, is the first guy wearing boots to his knees? Maybe they are fishing boots and that could relate to the guy with what I see as an anchor on his hat, if that IS an anchor.

 

Been reading up on cavalry uniforms and looking at lots of pictures from the Indian Wars.

The hats - Stetson (men 1 and 4) and kepi (men 2 and 3)were in continuous use from the Civil War through the Spanish-American War. But the kepi was discontinued in 1902. So we know your picture can't be later than that.

The boots - that guy closest to the camera is wearing the high boots for actual riding, particularly useful when riding through brush. The others don't appear to be.

The jackets - Look like standard issue, non-dress coats.

So the bottom line is that 1902 discontinuance date for the kepi is the only thing that changed for quite a while. I don't think you can really determine when the picture was taken from anything visible in the image.

You're sure there's nothing written on the back?

 

I don't see an anchor, Shiloh. They do have the brass "wreath" on the front of the kepi that would contain unit designation, which is probably what's making you think there's an anchor.

 

looks like 4 business men.
they are all admiring something.....i'd say it's their new hotel , just completed on the edge of town.

 

They do look like they are in the middle of nowhere, but there are 2 lamp posts: a second, fainter one, near the right edge. Perhaps they are standing by a seawall? They certainly look bundled up.



They also look older, so maybe veterans?

 

I like their pose. Makes me laugh. Especially the guy with the "popped collar"

 

I'm looking at it again and the second structure (no longer convinced it's a lamp post) is near the right edge of my cropped photo, just to the right of the right-most man. But now it looks to me that there might be a building at that structure's base. So... maybe a lighthouse? Maybe even an early radio tower?

 

The gent 2nd from left has "42" on the hat that the lamp is growing from. It does look like there could be ships in the background.

Probably a waste of time but I was thinking of 42nd US Vol. Inf. in the Philippines 1899, but couldn't match faces. In the unlikely event it is them, the heavy clothing means the photo wasn't taken in the Philippines but more likely Fort Niagra or elsewhere between there and the Philippines, perhaps even San Francisco.

 

1 and 4:
The hats on 1 and 4 are probably the "drab" campaign hats that were introduced in 1882. By WWI the shape of these campaign hats had changed to round stiff brims like used in WWI and Smoky Bear's chapeau. The first of the campaign hats (sometimes called fatigue hats) were introduced c1872. They were not well received because they didn't keep their shape. By 1882 they were improved and "drab" was added to their name.

Smithsonian website: United States Army Headgear 1855-1902
Page 60 of the online file, page 52 Smithsonian: the beginning of the section "Fatigue or Campaign Hats, 1872-1902"
Page 66 of the online file, page 58 Smithsonian, fig. 40, picture of the 1876 campaign hat.
Pages 68 & 69 of the online file, pages 60 & 61 Smithsonian, figs. 41 and 42, pictures of the 1882 "drab" campaign hats.
http://www.sil.si.edu/smithsoniancontributions/HistoryTechnology/pdf_lo/SSHT-0030.pdf

Survey of U.S. Army Uniforms, Weapons and Accoutrements
Page 38 of the online version, page 35 of the actual publication says this particular campaign hat was worn 1883 through the Spanish-American was of 1898. We can't tell from this pic. if those hats have "a brass circular vent centered on each side of the crown" or to the 1889 design with "holes punched in each side of the crown in a 'snowflake' pattern."
http://www.history.army.mil/html/museums/uniforms/survey_uwa.pdf

2 and 3:
To be a bit redundant for Baker has already ID the hats on 2 and 3 as kepis. They were officially called forage caps, but usually referred to as "kepis" as Baker said. I believe we can narrow down the date a bit more by these hats. A new design forage cap was introduced in 1895. It was in the shape of a fireman's cap.

"A new forage cap introduced in 1895 was similar to the caps worn by firemen and train conductors, and did not find favor with the troops. A solid brass branch insignia with a screw-post fastener on the reverse replaced the Pattern 1872 branch insignia in 1896."

Survey of U.S. Army Uniforms, Weapons and Accoutrement
Page 39 online file, page 36 of the actual publication.
http://www.history.army.mil/html/museums/uniforms/survey_uwa.pdf

Smithsonian website: United States Army Headgear 1855-1902
Page 56 online file, page 48 Smithsonian, beginning of the section on "Forage Caps"
Page 59, page 51 Smithsonian, Fig. 35, 1872 Officers forage caps, b. shows it in the low front position like the the officers in this pic are wearing theirs.
http://www.sil.si.edu/smithsoniancontributions/HistoryTechnology/pdf_lo/SSHT-0030.pdf

Nowwww, from what I have read it was not unusual for soldiers, officers and enlisted, to continue wearing a part of an uniform that was not 100% regulation. There is a good chance the men in the kepis were still wearing their old hats that they had spent years wearing and just didn't want to change to and/or didn't like the new regulation kepi caps. That first link under forage caps says the new design "did not find favor with the troops."

--- Susan

 

I also have been trying to edict the pic to bring our the backgound. I think behind and to our right of the man on the right is a ship. I think?? I see the bow or stern up to about midship. There may be some superstructure with mast/staff or whatever that is called on relatively modern ships like cruisers. Nowwww, this is by aged eyes.

--- Susan