Antique needlework

First, the long story.

About 50/55 years ago, on a nice autumn day, my wife and I went for a ride through the countryside. Really no idea where we were. Saw a sign “ANTIQUES” on a large, old barn. Went in. Huge, clean. Nicely laid out. Wandering to the very back we saw a picture Not just dusty, but dirty. We took it to be a pen and ink of a horse’s head. Price on glass in black grease pen $50, maybe $55. Took it to the guy up front and, because it had obviously been there for years, made an offer of $25. He laughed, saying his wife took a rare day off and if she found out he sold it for that he’s toast. We agreed on $50. and found our way home.

Dusted it off – outside – and started cleaning it. First noted price was not $55, but $550.00. Aw shucks! I felt sorry for the guy. But not even knowing what town we were in, with no receipt, no card, NADA, I had no idea how to reach him with a warning.

Years later, having been transferred to another State, we decided to quit moving unopened boxes of antiques and called in two dealers, at the same time, to talk business. This picture was over the fireplace. After haggling over carnival glass, tin boxes and whatever else, one lady asked about the picture. Sorry, NFS. One popped out with $1,000. NFS. Got to 5K. NFS. When the little private auction went to 10K I told them both to quit or everything else would be renegotiated. They left us a bit richer but disoriented.

Probably spent 40 to 60 hours overall dragging that little baby around in my car and learned a few things. Frame very likely custom made. Interior gold was probably 24K. Thread used is silk. Pic might have been a stitch by number, but doubtful. And then, Alma (Frappia Frappier, maiden name?) was a member of a well to do family in upstate New York. That estate had been liquidated mid-1900s.

Years later I actually found an antique dealer – actually Mr. and Mrs. - who dealt ONLY in this genre. They advised me that it was very well done, had only one spot that might be a minor flaw or could be intentional due to a slight difference in the horse’s neck coloring. Overall, said it was unusual, and they would be happy to handle it for me. Sorry, NFS.

OK, my daughter now has this ON LOAN. Out of State. (She’s the only one who has a strong desire for family heirlooms and already has many of them.) I know it’s not coming back to me unless, God Forbid, she goes before I do. She also, believe it or not, is a bit less gadget savvy than I. She took these pictures and e-mailed them. Please forgive some shadows, discoloring and reflections. I had fun trying to cover up pic flaws.

My personal opinion is that I have an excellent sample of 19th Century needlework that could sell – as AR says – at a well-attended auction for $600 +_.

Just my curiosity here. Do any of the exceptional folks here have anything that might add to its provenance?

P.S. The color around the picture is the wall. I couldn't crop it out.

 

I got nuthin....but WOW !!!

I like a man who stands his ground..... NFS means NFS !!!

Does your daughter have any idea the possible value?
Does she have it insured ???
Hate for something to happen to it after all this time and a great story like that !!!

PS....what's her address ?? ....

 

My Uncle Fidelito wants her address, too.
Beautiful story and piece. The Romantic in me wants to imagine that was her favorite bridle on her own horse.

 

Well, I don't know where the "came from a wealthy family in upstate NY" came from, but it is quite unlikely. I tried every conceivable interpretation of the embroidered signature and there was no one, named Alma or otherwise, with that name in upstate NY in the time period in question - Quebec, Ontario, Massachusetts, the UP of Michigan and the deep south, yes, but not NY. Closest I got was a woman whose maiden name was Alma Trappier who gave birth to 2 children between 1907 and 1910 in the Renfrew area of Ontario.

 

Lovely piece !!

 

Perhaps it is the lighting(?), but the silk thread looks to have a "rainbow" colors effect. If this is on the original, I believe it may have been colored after the fact and that beige (off-white?) thread was the color used. I cannot see the whole head well enough to confirm this but perhaps you can let me know.

 

That's starting to look like something a bit different, moreother. I had tried the first letter as a G (which is what I'm seeing now) but it really looks Italian - Giraffera? Girappia?

 

Hi Bakersgma,
It looks like an F to me not a G.
greg

 

Greg - I started with F, then T and finally G (out of desperation.) Only the T gave me positive results (see above,) but not in NY.

The Alma Trappier I found in Ontario married Emil Normand, but I couldn't find out where or when, just the births of 2 children.

Sorry to seem obsessive. Has nothing to do with the piece itself (which is lovely.)

 

BTW, it's 23" wide and 26 high. The appraiser has the last name spelled Frappian.

Does your daughter have any idea the possible value?
Does she have it insured ???

Good question. I had it included in my artwork insurance rider for $750. I doubt she has an art rider. She'd have to have it reappraised. My last was done in 1996.

PS....what's her address ??

Bad question. Actually closer to you than me. Hint. Her husband is an ex-Bills linebacker.

The Romantic in me wants to imagine that was her favorite bridle on her own horse.

Funny. That H & W pair of experts had said it might have been her own horse.
See above on Uncle Fidelito.

Bakersgm Thanks a TON for thinking of chasing the name. I would never have thought of that. On the other hand it's hard to make out anyway. I don't remember who mentioned the estate liquidation. Definitely a dealer in the NYC vicinity. I was at the time thinking the Adirondacks. I've learned since that to anyone in NYC "upstate NY" can mean the Bronx. Or maybe the Catskills.
I've always wondered if Alma had ever done other works like that. It certainly isn't, IMHO, one of the classroom type. But who knows?

For many years I checked every antique place for similar silk work. So few I kept thinking mine was one of a kind. I did find a spaniel dog, 25 x 20"White, brown and beige on burlap type cloth. Mid 1800s. That too, was bought for $50 at the antique shop closing sale. It had one of those elaborate plaster frames which was really falling apart. I took all of it off and ended up with a plain wooden frame. Never even hung it in my house. Funny, just checked my old insurance file. That one was appraised and insured for $2,400. Don't ask me why, the appraiser passed away unexpectedly about 3 months after he did this. That piece I did sell at auction about ten years ago for $2,100.

moreotherstuff Thank you, thank you for the sig. I copied and pasted. Makes it MUCH EASIER to work with. I'd ask how the heck you did that, but still wouldn't to be able to duplicate it.

Perhaps it is the lighting(?), but the silk thread looks to have a "rainbow" colors effect.I don't think so. I'd say definitely not. Some off-white, and many different shades of brown. Tan to almost black.

 

Yup on the New Yorker's definition of "upstate." Having been born and (mostly) grown up on "The Island," "upstate" was anything north of "The City." And people in "The City" didn't make much distinction between the 2 counties into which "The Island" was divided about 1900 (creating Nassau County out of what used to be the non-City part of Queens County.)

 

Bakers, I've always found it telling that folks from NYC call everything above the pink UPSTATE...

 

Great story! Just catching up with this thread.

Does anybody have paid access to the fold3 database? I got 2 hits using the spelling Alma Frappia through Google. Both are in fold3, which does not allow viewing much for nonsubscribers.

One hit is from a NYC directory from 1889. The Google snippet looks like it says "Frappia Alma artist" followed by an address. Remember that city directories are arranged by last name, so inverted.

The other hit was from a Cleveland city directory of 1883 that appears to say "Frappia Alma Miss corset cutter." The word after "corset" might not be "cutter." I am using my phone right now and can't easily flip back and forth between web pages to check my short-term memory. Also, typing on the phone tends to lead to more typos, for which I apologize.

 

Chicago is like that, too. Except they say Downstate instead of upstate. Everything outside the Chicago area is called Downstate, even if it happens to be a little north of the city.

 

Sorry to say I have not signed up for access to Fold3, but I tried searching ancestry again with that new information, Fig. I could not find Alma Frappia in NYC in the 1880's, but did find that Ohio directory listing. Seems odd that she is the only Frappia in that book. I looked to see if I could find her in A's "military" section, thinking she might be a surviving dependent of a Civil War soldier, but that didn't work either.

Part of the problem is spelling mistakes in indexing and enumerator errors, so you have to get creative to find items that are lurking there unseen.

 

Thank you, Fig. I am amazed you found an Alma Frappia. Since my first computer I've been unable to find anything close. Maybe she is an artist, though I wouldn't imagine it would be as a needle-ist.
But better than a corset cutter.

The time spent on this by all is also appreciated. I might as well drop this off, too. Started as soon as moreotherstuff kindly supplied that "picture" above. And I'll be off site for a while.

 

That is so true.

 

I wonder if this 1888 blurb refers to your needlework artist. Could it be machine-done?

 

Very nice find, Morgen!