Antique Hopi jug/container with fabric remnants - Any info about it?

A customer just brought this piece in to us, and we'd like to find out more information about it. It has an old label that identifies it as Hopi (see 3rd picture). It measures 8 inches across at the handles, and is 9 inches from the base to the top of the spout. There is some additional fabric scraps that are not attached, but they match what you see pictures. It weighs about 2 pounds 12 ounces. The plain side is mostly flat, while the other is curved. Any comments or observations? Thank you in advance! ... Dave

 

I guess these are called Canteens, or Saddle Jugs.

 

Does appear to be an early Hopi canteen. This would date to the very late 19th century at the earliest but I suspect it is at least a decade or two later. The most famous of the potters who produced these was Nampeyo but I do not think the work fine enough to be from her. Similar glue-on tags were used by the Fred Harvey Company that operated tourist gift shops at the Grand Canyon and other sites throughgout the Southwest. However, theirs had their name on them and I have seen similar tags used by other antique and trading post dealers up until the 50s. The fabric strap and wear to the canteen indicates that this may have been actually used at one time. I don't know enough about NA weavings to tell you if the strap is NA or not.

 

Odd thing just happened, I posted a reply a couple hours ago, and just now came back to see if there had been any further posts, and found my post with a message that it would not be posted until I signed in. I hadn't signed out, and had even answered a couple questions about a basket earlier, and those were posted okay. But somehow, in the meantime, I got "signed out." Never has happened before.

Anyway, I signed in, and of course my post disappeared. So I'll try to remember what I said, without repeating verybrad.

This is a smaller, decorated, version of a traditional Hopi canteen, made for sale. They were very popular in the time period verybrad mentioned. This one probably dates to the 1920's.

By that time, commercial metal pails had replaced the large traditional pottery canteens that Hopi women had used to carry water up to the mesa tops for generations. Unlike the Zuni and Acoma, who balanced water ollas on their heads, Hopi women usually had carried water in canteens on their backs (which is why one side is flat, to fit against the back), and may be why the canteen form became associated with the Hopi, and shows up in so many collections of Hopi pottery.

I doubt if the strap is original to the pot. It was probably added later to give it a look of additional "authenticity."

This web site has a canteen very similar to the one in question: http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25399480_rare-hopi-pottery-canteen

And this page has an interesting early photo showing Hopi woman carrying her canteen: http://www.rarepottery.info/HopiTewaVirtualMuseum.htm

 

I've seen those red & white tags used on items to fool the buyer into thinking they were antique & genuine, and of an older age than they really were.

This one may be legit as the style of writing uses old fonts & the lines look like they belong to a pen with a nib.

The canteen looks genuine to the 20's tourist trade.

Trash the weaving.....it doesn't make the jug look any better.

 

I agree. I should have worded it to say that the sash was probably added in an attempt to give it a look of additional "authenticity."

In my opinion it detracts, just as the red and white tag does. Those tags always send off a warning signal, maybe because there used to be an eBay seller who slapped them on every item he listed.

But the canteen does look good, from what I can tell from the photo, and I doubt if there is much demand for faking circa 1920's Hopi pots.

However, if you see a couple dozen show up in the near future, with similar straps and tags, I might be a little concerned.

 

Thanks all for your comments. I did some further checking on the history of the item. It belonged to the aunt of our customer, and she had it for many years, so it was definitely not a newly acquired piece.

I suspect the label is real, based on komokwa's observations, plus the missing material from the front which looks like silverfish (or similar insect) damage. When I list it, I plan to leave it on, since it will raise issues to try to remove it (e.g. damage to the underlying surface, residue, etc).

Thank you Taupou for repeating your post. I haven't had that same technical problem, but I do see that even if I check the box to remain logged in, sometimes I find that I've been logged out. Did you happen to see the final price that your first example sold for (I can only see the 400 start / 500-2000 estimate). I'm not sure how to price this, but the comparables I see so far seem to suggest it should be a 500 to $1000 item.

Again, thanks all. This is the first Hopi piece I've worked on, and the comments and observations have helped tremendously.

Dave

 

@gimbler-dave the canteen in the link sold for $6000.00!

 

WOW! And that was recently too! Thanks cxgirl for the info, I don't know if eBay will be as strong a marketplace, but that certainly gives hope for a better result!

 

You know ebay is not that strong......
but maybe include the above results ...as a push...???

 

We posted the canteen last night on eBay. Extraordinary interest so far, 10 day listing starting at 2K, with 1 bid already. Item #371243531583. Thanks again all for the comments and insight. ... Dave

 

It looks like it's off to a good start, with a bid already. Great listing description!

 

Good luck! You'll probably get some watchers from this group... I just added it.

 

Thank you!

 

wow! i'm watching. nice stuff overall, too!

 

For those who were not watching, this did quite well.

Congratulations!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOPI-INDIAN...-1900-1920-DECORATED-SADDLE-JUG-/371243531583

 

Wow!

 

It peaked with over 70 watchers before the auction ended - we were surprised at the level of interest (I think it was about 500 page views). Nice when that happens! ... Dave

 

Fantastic!

 

Very nice, congrats!