Featured Antique Chinese Portraits Painted on Pith Paper (?)

I don't have my hands on these two portraits of a Chinese Man and Woman that appear to be hand painted on pith paper (see @2manybooks post). They are approximately 5 X 7 inches with a 8 X 10 frame. One portrait is badly damaged with foxing and has some small damage, which I believe occurred prior to the current framing. The painting appears to be done with an incredibly fine hand. Would you pay $50 for them (not for resale)?

 

If your planning to keep I wouldn't do 50.00 condition is rough. Especially the last one.

 

They're lovely.

Debora

 

How much would you think. There may be wiggle room

 

I am very attracted to them. Thank you.

 

It looks like these paintings are on "pith", rather than rice paper. This smooth, white, almost translucent material "comes from the central column of spongy cellular tissue in the stem of a small tree called Tetrapanax Papyrifera, native to south-west China". Here is an interesting article explaining its use in 19th century paintings made for the China trade:
https://chinese-porcelain-art.com/articles/ifan-williams-chinese-watercolours/

 

2manybooks. This is a very enlightening article indeed! I think you are right, these have a feel of souvenir. I will change the title of my post! Thank you for this information.

 

Exactly right search term!!!!

https://www.loveantiques.com/antique-art/chinese/chinese-paintings-portraits-on-pith-set-of-4-19th-century-135500​

 

Here are some with better details and in better shape. I'm so excited @2manybooks knew just what they were.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://paradeantiques.co.uk/art/painting/c1850-antique-chinese-qing-dynasty-marriage-pith-paintings&psig=AOvVaw2cF5lCHQ24LZtyrr3CucTW&ust=1580085473140000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCOD_iZ-DoOcCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAG

 

It may be that these paintings are not on pith at all, as I have not really seen that type of foxing on pith pieces. Cracking and splitting, yes, but never foxing. Maybe I've been lucky.
They also appear to be quite a bit higher quality than the usual fare, my guess is that they are actually gouache paintings on paper.

I own several pith paintings including an exceptionally large one together with a set that are signed by the most respected of the export pith picture makers, Wing Tai Hing of Canton.

 

Hard to tell for sure, from photographs through glass.

 

I love you have several pith paintings with an actual signature of a master. If these are gouache paintings are they from the same period and purpose? I know nothing.

 

I'm sorry I didn't have more photographs to help in your analysis. I appreciate your thoughts. I've never seen either before

 

Here is another article on pith paintings, which includes the comment that "Many pith paintings show the discolouration and the development of brown stains or 'foxing' which is a feature often also seen in aged paper. This is not surprising as both materials are essentially cellulose based."
http://manuscripta-orientalia.kunstkamera.ru/files/mo/2010_02/ProsserSinger.pdf

 

This one covers all the bases "Antique 19th Century Pith Rice Paper Gouache Painting."

 

Well fair enough, I do see stains etc on some and I concur it can happen - however, from what I've seen of the type of staining the pattern of damage has been less consistent than what I'm looking at here.
It is more the quality of the work though that pushes me away from these being pith - these paintings of Kiko's far exceed the quality of any pith painting I've seen.

They are so well executed they may be from one of the Chinnery school students i.e. Lamqua, Tinqua and Youqua et al. Possibly the rarity of such works is the reason I have not seen pith of this quality - that is to say they could indeed be on pith, but whatever they are, these are a particularly valuable pair of Chinese gouaches I would be proud to own.

 

They do appear to be of very high quality.

 

OMG. Well I locked them in based on your observations. I will pick them up on Tuesday. Since you consider them quality pieces, do you know of someone who could get rid of the foxing and perhaps replace the mats, so no further damage will occur? I really appreciate you taking the time to look at these and help me make a decision.

 

Thank you for this. I rarely run across anything really good and worth saving.

 

If they are on pith, I wouldn't do anything much, they can crack and disintegrate very easily. On paper? well, again, those gorgeous velvety colours will be compromised if you get them "restored" (bleached with something or other) so I wouldn't trust anyone with them personally, never mind how good they claim to be.

I think removing the backing and replacing it and any matting with alphamat would stop the foxing process, but there again, make sure the pieces are loose and not mounted/glued to anything. These things are very fragile and sometimes best left alone.