Featured Trying to find info on an old wood panel painting.

It is an interesting read. I will say, researchers in late 19th/early 20th declared some things "fact" that current researchers question.

That's a big part of why I'm not convinced of dating, yet.

Honestly, there are so many sources of snippets of info, it's a bit overwhelming to keep it all sorted.

The spreadsheets have begun. Always a significant sign.

 

Do the XX marks have serifs? The little bars at the ends of some fonts, like this one: XX

 

Just realized when I hit 'unimaginative merchant' that you had led us to this way back when. It does make clear how extensively used such marks were, across time, across station in life, across locations & uses. Swans were marked on their bills! There's a case of duck rustling that went to court & a complaint by a cloth maker of trademark infringement by a maker of inferior goods riding the coattails of his good reputation. And we thought it started with Louis Vuitton knockoffs.

 

I didn't remember which book/article that tidbit was in, but I do remember getting a bit queasy when I read it.

 

Nothing like that as far as I can tell.

 

It's from the Rylands paper.

 

Then I will join the "Not double letter X" Train.

EDIT: Well, technically, I still have one foot on the platform. IOW, I'm not 100% committed.

 

While I'm still percolating date data, thought I'd share this just for fun.



Close-ups found here:
Lead Seals from Colonial Fort St. Joseph (20BE23)
Cathrine Davis
https://scholarworks.wmich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3417&context=honors_theses

Full Piece can be seen here:
http://mnm.webmuseo.com/ws/musee-national-marine/app/collection/record/9880
L'Intérieur du Port de Marseille, vu du Pavillon de l'horloge du Parc
peintre : VERNET Joseph (1714 - 1789)
lieu de création : Marseille
date de création : 1754

 

Super, live catching of the sealing/stamping!

 

Wow!! Great find, thanks!!

 

And, judging by tags, it was found in Rotterdam

 

And note that while they call it XX, there are serifs on the outside branches, but not where the "two letters" meet in the middle. Could be artistic license, but I see it as an argument for "not XX".

Because of trade (woolens in particular), the merchant's marks topic has a lot of crossed paths between the Netherlands and England.

Here's an interesting page that includes good info, plus details of a merchant's mark (of a woolens merchant) worked into the memorial brass (between their heads).

http://users.trytel.com/~tristan/towns/florilegium/popcom04.html

 

When a symbol is so successful, used by so many, in so many places, for so many purposes, for centuries, you can bet it has a lot of flexibility when it comes to interpretation. One woman's ambiguity is another's richness of meaning. I have no problem with the notion that the base supporting the '4' can be seen as either XX (since X, chi, is the first letter of Christ, it had significance all by itself; the ones with the 4 facing the other way look a lot like chi rho) or a pair of squares emblematic of the skilled trades, the Masonic fraternity, etc.

 

Omg!!! That is sooo close! Wow!!!

 

Oh and.

The simplest answer I have read to the "what does the 4 represent" (forward/backward) is "ship's sail."

I've read a number of explanations, but that was the one where I read it and thought, "doh!"

So much of this was about shipping merchandise and some of the oldest mentions of the marks lead us to believe there was an element of ward/blessing/protection during transport.

I like it. Don't expect to ever know that one for certain, though.

 

I just mentioned this to Mr. Jivvy (the sailing man) and he seriously (very seriously) questions the use of a triangular sail as a sailing symbol in medieval times.

So, there's that.

 

The bare bones designs seem to be made up of an assortment of crosses, which ties in with invoking a blessing on the venture & protection on the voyage.

 

I can't remember if it was said in this thread, but the two primary arguments (obviously, from people who know more about medieval sailing than I do ) are Agnus Dei banner and Chi Rho.

I find both theories... stretching a bit. Chi Rho less so, but... stretchy.