Featured Can anybody shed any light on this piece?

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by Rob Langdon, Oct 3, 2024.

  1. Rob Langdon

    Rob Langdon Well-Known Member

    It stands 17.5 inches tall by 5 inches wide and was found along Stockton Creek in Albemarle County, Virginia, after the flood waters receded. I'm not sure what the wood is. What caught my eye was the neck groove in it, but after looking closer, I discovered a face staring back at me. Screenshot 2024-10-03 at 10.51.54 AM.jpg
     
  2. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

    How big izzit, Rob?
     
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  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    ;)
     
  4. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

    D'oh!
    Guilty, as hell. Sorry, folks.
     
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  5. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Did you find it after the recent flooding, from hurricane Helene? Is it still wet/damp?
     
  6. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    It may be a significant find. I would urge you to contact the Virginia State Archaeologist, Dr. Elizabeth Moore - 804 482-6084. If it is still wet, it is very important not to let it dry out, and to get it to appropriate conservators ASAP.

    https://www.dhr.virginia.gov/programs/state-archaeology/
     
  7. Boland

    Boland Well-Known Member

    Wow,that’s one hell of an interesting discovery. And fairly big. I really hope we can learn more at it. Very cool!
     
  8. Rob Langdon

    Rob Langdon Well-Known Member

    There were two floods here associated with Helene-one when it passed through and one when it came back. This was found after the first flood. The first thing I did was clean it with a soft brush and clear dish soap. Next, I applied a fairly heavy coat of SP-11, which is a conservation treatment for waterlogged and excavated wood. It is soaking at the moment in that solution.
     
  9. NanaB

    NanaB Well-Known Member

    I am glad it was you who found it, how many would know how to properly care for something so special. A good deed does not go unnoticed.
     
  10. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    It sounds like you have good experience with such objects. I do hope you will share it with the archeological community.
     
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  11. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

    This case is the exception to the ol' saw:
    No good deed goes unpunished!

    Well Done, Rob!!
     
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  12. Sedona

    Sedona Well-Known Member

    Wow! I have no clue but please post back when you learn something.
     
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  13. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    What a neat find! It doesn’t look something that some goofball would carve in their backyard within the last couple years. Unless they were modeling it on something specific maybe. What’s up with the cavity on the carved side? Does it look man made or natural!
     
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  14. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Clearly a different tradition, but it reminds me of the Zuni "war gods" - Ahayu:da - which have an inserted, protruding "umbilical cord".

    upload_2024-10-3_23-36-7.png

    "Every winter, Zuni tribal members carve two such figures, bringing each to a ceremonial shrine atop a mountain on tribal land, where they are left to the elements. These figures were first discovered by anthropologists in the 19th century, and many have been stolen and placed in museums and private collections throughout the US and Europe. In 1978, the Zuni Tribe officially announced that they would like to see the statues returned, and over 100 figures have been repatriated since. “The Zuni recognize the war gods as living beings, and their removal from the shrine where they live represents an affront to Zuni cultural traditions."
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/202...indigenous-war-god-sculpture-to-a-zuni-pueblo

    https://coloradosun.com/2019/01/04/plundered-skulls-chip-colwell-excerpt/
     
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  15. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    Very interesting!
     
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  16. NanaB

    NanaB Well-Known Member

    Exactly
     
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  17. Rob Langdon

    Rob Langdon Well-Known Member

    I am not real sure . It doesn't look like a knot hole. I am curious about the "X" next to it. I also see some debris in there that I didn't get out. Screenshot 2024-10-05 at 7.23.28 AM.jpg
     
  18. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It looks like a very deliberate shape. Leaf shaped, almost, but I'm sure it is supposed to be something else. Maybe another material was inlaid there.
    I hope the archeologists in your area can tell you more. And we will be waiting here for the result.:)
     
  19. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    I don't believe members on the forum will be able to answer your questions. It does not look like a European object, and there is the possibility that it is quite old. Examples of early, east coast Native American carved wooden objects are rare, due to the unique circumstances of preservation needed for them to survive. So there are few comparisons. Specialists more familiar with what has been found archeologically, and with what exists in early ethnographic collections, would be more able to help you - and doubtless would be very interested in examining the object. It would be especially valued because you know the approximate context/location for the find.

    As examples of the original context that might be relevant, there are the sketches and paintings made in the 1580s by the English explorer John White, recording early Native Americans in Virginia. His drawings were later reproduced in engravings by Theodore de Bry, and published in 1590 in Thomas Hariot's A briefe and true report of the new found land of Virginia.
    https://virginiahistory.org/learn/e...w-cole-collection/theodore-de-brys-engravings

    One de Bry engraving illustrates tattoo marks that might relate to the X on your figure -
    upload_2024-10-5_10-32-29.png
    No extant John White painting corresponds to this print. The caption explains the symbols as marks worn by men to show their affiliation: "whereby it may be known what Prince's subjects they be, or of what place they have their origin."

    And one of the original paintings by White shows posts with human heads carved at the top -
    upload_2024-10-5_10-28-53.png
    https://www.npca.org/articles/3606-scenes-from-the-new-world
     
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  20. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Well-Known Member

    Nicely done, Books...Thanks!
     
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