Featured Need help on a Japanese sword

Hello, I found a sword from local estate sale. I am not sure about the age of it, but it seems not a new reproduction.
Please find attached photos and let me know what you think. Thanks for all the feedback//co mments.

 

I love Japanese swords. The style is just so appealing. Japanese swords are still tough for me to authenticate. In all my years I have only seen 2 unquestionably real ones at flea markets. The funny thing is that the are "not that rare" in that thousands and thousands were taken back after the war. However, the demand is so high that it makes them worth a ton. In my novice opinion, it looks like it has a clay temper line (Hamon) and not a machine brushed pattern, which is typically a good start.

I always look at the tip next. A photo directly on the tip would be helpful. Repos tend to have a hard time with the point. Japanese swords are works of art. Authentic swords just have a certain "flow" to their blades where a lot of repos have a shorten/stubby point or use the wrong angle.

Would the seller let you take the handle off to look at the tang? That is always a good indicator on authenticity and age. If you see multiple pin holes it would indicate the sword was remounted. If you see a signature you could try getting a maker and age. A signature should be done with care. Again, sword making is an art and an artist would take pride in their work and want to mark it as such. The name would be chiseled by hand. It kind of looks like small triangle/tear drop shaped engraving. Arsenal marks (Seki stamp) would help indicate if it were WW2. Hope this helps.

 

Thank you TreaShore for sharing the helpful insight.
I like authentic japanese sword. But now days, the market price is just too high, and raggedly I pass several very good opportunity in local auctions.
For this sword, the first thing that draw my attention is actually the brass decoration, which is similar to WWII military swords. The angle of tip, like you mentioned, has a natural curvature. The scabbard looks plain, but with old taste. If the price won't go beyond mu budget, I will give it a try.

 

To me , the Hamon looks forced........ the tsuba is not iron ,,,,, so ww2.....very likely.

 

https://www.swordsofnorthshire.com/blogs/theblade/how-to-date-a-japanese-sword

 

I am thinking that this sword was possibly put together post war, but using many genuine parts.
The kabuto gane, (Pommel) is a shin-Gunto type, used by the Army. However, the fuchi (the metal collar at the end of the grip by the guard), doesn't match, they usually do. The sarute (metal ring for the sword knot) is crude and quite wrong. The guard (tsuba) is one of the three or four types that were available for private puchase either by officers, or civilians attached to the Army. The seppa ( metal washer in front of the tsuba is crude, and only a single piece. There would be a matching one on the other side of the tsuba. There are usually three or four , all different, on each side of the tsuba, unless there was no room for more than one without drilling a new hole in the nakago!
The saya (scabbard), has two suspension rings (Ashi), which is usually used by the Navy, though not always, though a two ashi mounted Army sword is a bit of a rarity. Usually a civilian saya like this, would have been covered with a leather combat cover.
The grip binding (Tsuka-ito) has obviously been fairly recently re-wrapped.
As for the blade, we need better pictures I am afraid. Tyu holding it vertical against a dark background. Also, as has been mentioned, is it possible to take the Tuska (grip) off, and photograph the nakago (tang)? A lot of knowledge is contained there, and not just the signature, the shape, colour, filemarks, number of mekugi-ana (holes), arsenal stamps etc.
Quite a lot of swords like this were put together to sell to GI's as war souvenirs post war. Some, I suspect like this, made mainly out of genuine parts. Others were quite crude copies, and some were even made in China and India, even the Phillapines as souvenirs, even then!
I'd love to see slightly better pictures if possible.

I am certainly no expert on these, so please do not take any of this as gospel, but I did collect them many years ago, and maintain a keen interest in them. If you can get the handle off, I can usually read the Japanese signatures too.

 

I'm not sword smart enuf to consider multiple parts..... but yes it's one sword that gets taken down and put back together like a puzzle....and the tang tells the story of the blade .... even if all other parts have been cobbled together..

 

Actually Komo, to be more accurate, the tang may tell the story of the blade. The blade tells the story of the blade, and needs to be looked at first. Many people simply look at the tang and what is says and accept this as gospel, but in fact many, especially older blade, are what we call Gimei (fake or added signatures). The blade itself will tell you if the signature is shoshin (genuine). Some people were very good at faking signatures, but the blade cannot lie, and a smith worked in a certain style, with certain characteristics and this will often tell you if the signature is Gimei or not. Of course this usually applies to blades by the more prominent makers, but it can also be found on later WWII period swords too, often done in China.

 

Thank you Blacksmith for sharing the detailed info. I just wonder if the Brass guard is authentic / It looks quite fancy with flower decorations.

 

Yes indeed !
I do though...like to start out by thinking the siggy is original.....and work backwards from there !!

I've seen several tangs..... altered and cut down.....to fit different style handles .
I once had ...in my hand....not mine , though I tried..... a Wakizashi blade in a plain beige housing....a Shirasaya , which I found to be most interesting , and learned more about how a blade ... finds it's other parts !

 

The Tsuba comes in many variations...... yours is nice!

 

I tend to work the other way round Komo, blade first, then signature. I once owned an exquisite wakizashi, in the shirasaya that you mentioned. I bought it at Christies in 1982. The blade was in perfect polish, came with a certificate signed by a famous Japanese sword appraiser, Hakusui Inami.
The signature, though well done, and the certificate didn't have the appraisers seal on it, meaning it wasn't worth the paper it was written on! I bought the blade because it was enormous and had all the features that I loved, but it was totally different from any blade made by the smith who supposedly signed the tang. The mei was Tsuta Echizen no Kami Sukehiro, a very well known smith, and dated Enpo Go Nen (1677), The blade was absolutely beautiful, but clearly not made by Sukehiro. The signature looked good, but the blade couldn't lie!

 

Well then together........ nothing would get by us !!!!

 

Well that's one way of looking at it I suppose! He, he.

Here are a few standard tsuba found on WWII Army katana. These were all mass produced.



Here you can see that the fuchi (collat on the bottom of the grip matches), the pommel on the top would also normally match too.


Matching set with bamboo motive. I have had a katan with this pattern of fittings. Possibly used by an officer, or perhaps a civilian attached to the militart, who also carried swords. These shown here are bright, but they can also be patinated to a dark finish.


This is the standard Army type of tsuba, used on perhaps 95% of Shin-Gunto katana. However, that shown here has a pierced design around the outer edge, which was an optional extra, and is usually a sign of a better quality blade, or maybe an older ancestral blade. The oldest Army sword that I have owned with this type of tsuba, had a blade that dated to the Nambokucho period, ca. 1336- ca. 1392.


All the above were mass produced and available for private purchase.

 

Interesting. I have two Jap? swords that have been sitting around for over decade. Blades are pretty up...maybe I should post photos... Probs repos.

 

Start a new thread........ we'll have a look !!!

 

You sound like an expert to me. Very knowledgeable. You did a heck of a lot better than my explanation. I noticed there was a lot going on elsewhere too, like the saya and tsuka things you mentioned, but couldn't really make heads or tails out of it.

 

No problem. I know the market is so tough for these (price wise). It took me about 18 years to find one that I could add to my collection. I learnt through posting on another form that it was a WW2 blade in civilian mounts. The owner was a reseller who obtained it for a pennies on the dollar. I knew him for over a decade and he could tell my face lit up after seeing it in his display case. I ran home, got my tools, and drove back to disassemble it. He didn't know anything about Japanese swords so I explained things as well as I could. He saw how excited I was so he gave it to me for a heart stopping price of $125. I will never, ever sell that sword.

Eventually things will break your way and you will find one that you were meant to have. I'll be rooting for to find it.