Which was first.

Discussion in 'Art' started by Richard Arthur, Feb 10, 2024.

  1. 5.jpg 1.jpg 2.jpg 4.jpg 3.jpg In my research I have discovered a painting almost exactly the same as the one I have. The signature is totally different. I have examined the one I have quite extensively under magnification and black light. Noticing a couple of small areas that appear to have been repaired. The signature doesn't flare so I don't think it was added. The cradle on the back is much later then the piece itself as is the frame, and the back of the board has been painted black. Sometimes this was done to keep the panel from absorbing moisture. The one by
    Jose Rico Y Cejudo the first photo (1864-1939) is almost exact to the Guglielmo Zocchi (1874-1932) that I have. The brush work on ours is much finer.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2024
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  2. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    I'm not sure it matters. They both painted the same kinds of pictures at about the same time. Maybe at some point they worked together? How do the two paintings compare on size?

    I would expect prices on works to be comparable, but don't know that for a fact.

    It's also possible that this is another example of a modern copy with whoever's name stuck on it for credibility. Is yours on panel? Is the panel plywood? Is the other on canvas?
     
  3. verybrad

    verybrad Well-Known Member

    Was able to find a better photo of the Cejudo work.

    [​IMG]

    Viewing the body of work by both painters, I tend to think this the original. I am not an expert and this is just my opinion. Note the similarity to this other work by Cejudo.

    cejudo.jpg

    .... and this one.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2024
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  4. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    'The Priest's Visit.' The original is by José Rico Cejudo. It's included in a list of his works here in this biography from Spain's Real Academia de la Historia. I've run the relevant paragraph through Google Translate for you.

    "Thus, it will show girls conversing in orchards, patios or terraces, or jovial gypsies or young florists in scenes such as Spreading Fortune, Uncle Fauga's Sale, The Flower Seller or The Priest's Visit, productions full of light and where the meticulous The master's brush always seems attentive to showing in detail the tiled plinths, the pots with flowers or the arbors that serve as the surroundings of the characters."

    https://dbe.rah.es/biografias/4232/jose-rico-cejudo

    It's also mentioned here in a discussion of his work on the Museo CarmenThyssen Malaga's web site.

    https://www.carmenthyssenmalaga.org/en/obra/andaluces-en-la-venta

    (Not surprising a Spanish artist. Typically Sevillian scene by a Sevillian artist.)

    Debora
     
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  5. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Feb 10, 2024
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  6. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    The Andalusian subject would be a bit unusual for Zocchi. Not only was he Italian, he typically painted Classical scenes.

    Debora

    2013_CSK_09429_0150_000(guglielmo_zocchi_the_centre_of_attention113319).jpg
     
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  8. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    So: is OP's picture is actually by Zoochi?
     
  9. Hi,
    the panel is wood NOT plywood at all. It is old. As to the same pictures, the one marked Zocchi, to me is more refined. The question is....is it a Zocchi?
     
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  10. Zocchi also painted French scenes and was known as Orientalist in style. This is very confusing and honestly the Zocchi painted the women more feminine.
     
  11. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Here's Zocchi's signature for comparison. Yours may very well be his -- it's very similar -- but it's not written with the same assurance. And IMHO, the Rico Cejudo is by far the better executed of the two. The Zocchi does appear to be a copy.

    Debora

    4fe77832a01c556e7554c4d89f2edc5d-1000.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2024
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  12. In doing a bit of art sleuth work after visiting the site Deborah recommended https://www.carmenthyssenmalaga.org/en/artista/jose-rico-cejudo I discovered that he had been sent to Rome and Venice on a grant from Seville in 1888. That would have put him in the proximity of Guglielmo ZOCCHI. jose-rico-cejudo painting Easter Blessing In Rome would reflect the influence of the Italian painters. You may be right about them painting together
     
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  13. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Cejudo Rico studied in Italy. There is no evidence that he knew or painted with Zocchi.

    Debora

    'Easter Blessing in Rome.' 1893.
    Bendición_pascual_en_Roma,_de_José_Rico_Cejudo_(Ayuntamiento_de_Sevilla).jpg
     
  14. Not to split hairs but I have used artistsignature.com before. My personnel experience, found them to be limited in variations of artist signatures through time and not the end all. Here are some known signatures from Christies 2013 lot #150 page 73 New Orleans Auctions 2017 lot # 304 page 126 which none are written with the same assurance as the one posted. I agree art is so subjective we all have our opinions on different paintings. IMHO, the color and execution of Zocchi is my preference.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Did Zocchi regularly paint on panel?
     
  16. Most of his paintings were o/c. However he did a number of paintings that were oil on board.
     
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