Two Botanical Etchings After Basilius Besler

Trying to figure if these are original.
They appear to be hand colored. Plate marks are visible on some areas but the impressions are not that deep and clear and the edges are showing uneven traces of the background tan color. Don't know if that is normal.


From what I found Hortus Eystettensis was printed in three editions
1. 1613. Text description printed on the back of the print
2. 1640. Back of print is blank
3. 1713 [- c. 1750]. Thicker and richer with grainier cloth fibers. Text description printed on the back of the print.


I have not taken them out of the frames (still debating if I should do that) but the papers appear to be thick with fibers. So, if original they should be from the third edition, I guess.
The plate sizes are about 16 1/4" x 19", which is about right.
But the prints look too clean and neat to be from 1700's

I also wonder, should not there be text with who the printer, engraver and publisher were? I am not finding any here.

Any thoughts?

 

Hard to tell from photographs, but my impression is that they are fairly recent reprints. The lines look surface printed to me rather than intaglio, and I think the texture of the paper inside the plate should be different from the texture outside as any paper that was over the plate would have been mashed really, really flat when it went through the press.

 

Forgot to mention that the originals were done on copper plates but not steel ones. I am not sure but copper being softer would not produce very sharp lines.
It is possible to be repros but I'd expect more cheap paper to have been used.
I am almost sure the lines are impressed rather then being mimicked by printing.

 

I made curtains out of material with that first image printed on it in the 70's.

 

so you saw the material somewhere and thought....." It's curtains for you !! ".

Heeheehee !!!!!!

 

Yup! She just draped in her tracks.

 

The tan coloration that is not on the outer edges of the paper seems a bit unusual to me. I've looked at some versions online and haven't found that in any of them. But of course they do not always show the image all the way to the edge of the paper.

It would be really hard to evaluate something like this through photos, especially when they are still framed with glass over them.

The images I've seen online do not have text saying who the printer, engraver, etc. were. I noted that prints from the first and third editions often have text bleeding through from the back. Or so says this page, which I think you may have seen already: https://www.georgeglazer.com/prints/nathist/botanical/beslerinv/beslerinv.html

Yours don't appear to have that, although he does indicate that they don't always have that.

You might want to have an expert look at these to make sure. What do you mean that the prints look too neat and clean to be from the 1700s? I may be misunderstanding, but I find that botanical engravings from that period are often printed very precisely. You might have meant something else by "neat and clean," though.

My main concern is the dual coloration of the paper (tan with white edges). I can't tell in the photos whether or not I think they are original. It's good to see plate marks, although I suppose those could be faked.

 

I do not think these are very old.

 

Agreeing with Figtree... and given the potential and possibilities, an in-person professional appraisal would be good.

 

Took one out of the frame. The print's sheet is laid over cardboard so no way to check the verso for printed text. Something I hate to see, the print is adhered to the mats. Why people do that?

I do think there are impression plate marks, from matrix or faked, I can't tell.

Asides from being hand colored, seems like there is additional enhancement with paint.

The plate size is about 16 1/4" x 19 1/4" and the sheet (which seems trimmed so not sure if that is the full original size) is approx. 21 1/4" x 24 1/2".

According to
https://www.bergbook.com/htdocs/Besler.html

there was " a further edition about 1750 was published, again with text on the versos, the original copper-plates had been re-engraved (overworked) for this edition, because many of plates were already quite used up. For this edition paper with wide unusual margins was used"

By margins, they mean the unprinted area between the plate mark and the edge of the sheet or the space between the image and the lower edge of the plate?

Over here
http://www.baumanrarebooks.com/rare-books/besler-basil/iris-latifolia/102833.aspx

they say "This print is most likely from the 1713 third edition, printed on somewhat coarser paper, with contemporary or near-contemporary hand-coloring"

Contemporary coloring?

 

Interesting about the later edition from 1750. And really too bad about the print being attached to a cardboard back! Depending on whether you find it is original or not, it might be worth having it removed from the board by an expert.

I have a botanical print that was printed later than the known editions. I'm not sure when it was published but was told by a print expert who examined it that he thought the paper was from around 1775. The artist, Maria Sibylla Merian, died in 1717 and her printing plates were later acquired by other publishers. I believe mine was from a later book printed from her original plates. I have not been able to identify the exact edition yet. (This doesn't help with your question, but it got me thinking.)

The paper on yours does look a little coarse and fibrous, as you mentioned.

 

Besler's plates were melted down in 1817 so I wounder, if this is an intaglio print, are there ways to reproduce an etching without the original plate.

 

Can you tell if it's wove or laid paper? I know the cardboard backing prevents light from coming through, but with a high power loupe you might be able to tell which it is.

My gut feeling is it's a reproduction, but worthy of having an expert look at it.

 

Did you find out about these prints. I have some just like these.

 

Hi @Two kittens. Welcome to Antiquers!

This thread is 8+ years old, so I wouldn't expect too much response. But you never know!

 

IKR lol

 

Hi Two Kittens and welcome to Antiquers. It's ok that this thread is old. But,,
Please show your prints in a new thread.
We tend to try to make new threads for different items. If you'd like, you can link this thread to yours in one of your first posts.