Featured Considering this...Belt Buckle? Silver and enamel

I'm trying to understand why the amber enamel buckle is definitely by Norsk Filigransfabrikk when it doesn't have the "NF" signature and the silver fineness doesn't look like the example shown. The only similarity I see in the marks is Norway's national symbol of a crowned rampant lion. I'm not arguing--just trying to understand and learn.

Since the marks obviously don't look anything like the Marius Hammer signature, but the design of the buckle is exactly the same, I'm wondering if it was common practice in Norway for silversmiths to make exact copies of the designs of others. I've seen examples of the enamel butterflies that were made by different companies, but there are subtle variations in the designs and enameling. If the amber enamel buckle can't be attributed to Marius Hammer, I probably wouldn't buy it, but it if is a Marius Hammer piece, I would buy it even with the damage.

P.S. In 1920, standard .925 started to replace .830 purity for Norwegian silver jewelry, so the amber enamel buckle would probably be post-1920--unless some silversmiths were using 925 before then.

 

What I see is two fairly significant areas of loss at left and right in your first pic, with remnants of the enamel remaining over the textured surface - the edges of where the enamel chipped off seem evident to my eye. Fired enamel is glass, so it may indeed have a shine to what remains - there are no air bubbles, the lighter tone would be caused by the lack of depth to the enamel in those damaged areas.

The 'before' image in the restoration of the basse-taille enamel below shows similar damage, with less enamel remaining than the piece being discussed

~Cheryl

 

That enamel restoration is amazing. Is that your work at M Flynn Restorations?

 

It is definitely by Norsk Filigransfabrikk because it bears their mark, the 'NF-in-shield' mark is an alternate, just as Marius Hammer used 'MH' and 'M.HAMMER' as well as 'M-over-hammer'. The national mark with lion was/is in a circle and used by the assayer, but assay was/is not required in Norway, and it's a seldom seen stamp - there is nothing wrong with the '925' fineness.

Again, despite what you may believe, the piece is not by Marius Hammer, it was made by Norsk Filigransfabrikk. It was and still is not uncommon for Norwegian silver manufacturers to produce near identical or extremely similar pieces, whether jewelry, flatware or holloware. I have many Marius Hammer pieces, only a few by Norsk Filigransfabrikk, but they were working in the same period (Marius Hammer a bit older firm), and they were a high quality maker as well - given a choice of identical pieces by each, I'd likely prefer the 'NF' piece, just because 'MH' was more prolific, making the 'NF' less common - but to each their own.

P.S. Not true. .925 silver did not replace .830, it is still the second standard in Norway, and is still being produced by some makers - and there was/is no requirement that .830 silver be used, only that it was the minimum quality, .900, .930 and .950 were also commonly used along with .925 in the late 19th century.


~Cheryl

 

Of course not - why would you think that? It's an illustrative example...

~Cheryl

 

I'm sensing that you're getting frustrated with my comments, so I would like to repeat that I'm simply questioning and trying to learn, and I do appreciate your explanations. You obviously have much more knowledge about Norwegian silversmiths than I do.

I asked if the enamel restorations were your work because there was no link to the photos, which the rules for this forum say here should be. I've probably not always provided a link to some of the photos I've copied, but I'm trying to remember to do that.

 

I saw the statement "In 1920, standard .925 started to replace .830 purity" on the link provided by Bakersgma and assumed it was true because Bakersgma mentioned it was a trusted source for Marius Hammer marks. I should have included the following sentence from that website: "At the present purity 999, 925, 830 and 800 are admitted for silver items, but .925 is the foremost standard in use." https://www.silvercollection.it/DICTIONARYEUHALLMARKNORWAYOZ.HTML#NORWAYOZ

 

I'm now convinced that the amber enamel buckle is by Norsk Filigransfabrikk. I sent a message and photo to Tor and Helen from RetroStilig (the people from Norway who sold the Marius Hammer blue enamel buckle on Etsy). Here's their reply: "This one appears to be from Norsk filigransfabrikk. It was quite common for manufacturers to borrow designs from each other.
solvstempler.no/Norsk_filigransfabrikk.html"

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my questions and comments, but I was seeing marks on the amber buckle that differed from the examples posted for Norsk Filigransfabrikk, while the design seemed identical to the Marius Hammer buckle. In addition, I don't know anything about the background information or where most of the people are located who post on this forum, so it's sometimes difficult for me to determine if people have specialized knowledge about the various jewelry makers being discussed.

 

What? You mean you copied & pasted the exact wording from a site without citing or linking the source, or even quotation marks to indicate those words weren't yours?

 

I just noticed I responded to the wrong comment, so I'll need to rewrite this later. Later: Yes, guilty as charged....my humble apologies to all. Thank you, Cheryl, for pointing that out.

 

Please note that my comment was referencing the quote posted above it - these words from the silvercollection site:

Frankly, I don't really care, Giorgio, the owner of that site has copied & pasted my words, at least one paragraph (likely more, but I don't go looking), without asking or citation, but since you seemed to feel the need to call me out on my 'rule violation' for the image I posted...

I really want nothing more to do with this thread, but very pleased that you now have the correct information from folks who actually know stuff (unlike me, of course). Wishing you well in your endeavors to learn - I've been buying, selling, collecting, and researching silver and other antiques and collectibles for well over four decades, and I still learn and see new things almost every day.

~Cheryl

 

For anyone who is interested, here is Antiquers rule relating to copyright https://www.antiquers.com/threads/the-rules.109/:

"8 – Copyright violations

Copyright law is very specific. It clearly states that any article may not be copied or reproduced without the express written permission of the author or holder of the copyright. And contrary to what you might think – everything is copyrighted, including pictures. What that means is that if you find what you think is a neat or very informative article or picture on another web site and you wish to share it with your friends on Antiquers – you CANNOT just copy & paste that article on Antiquers.
It is against the law.

If you wish to share, please by all means do so. But do so in the right way. Copy the first sentence or two and paste them if you must, but it is preferable to just use your own words as an introduction and then post a link to the article you wish to share. Or a link to the picture you wish to share."

For what it's worth, the words I used about the .925 standard starting to replace .830 on Norwegian silver in 1920 are also found on the 925-1000 website, but I still should have included a link to the silvercollection.it website, and I should not have concluded that the amber enamel buckle was therefore post-1920. This thread has been a great learning experience for me, and I appreciate everyone's comments.

 

Ahhh - see you corrected yourself...

 

And here I am again - not sure if you're implying that one copied from the other, but Tom set up his 925-1000 Norwegian section (which includes some marks and item images from my collection) well before silvercollection, but Giorgio has much more information now. Regardless, both said basically, but not exactly the same thing:

"In 1920, standard .925 started to replace .830 purity."
https://www.silvercollection.it/DICTIONARYEUHALLMARKNORWAY.HTML

"The old Norwegian standard of .830 purity silver is still used, but beginning around 1920, .925 purity began replacing it and is now the foremost standard in use."
https://www.925-1000.com/Fnorway_marks.html

~Cheryl

 

I didn't learn that Cheryl has a lot of knowledge about silver jewelry until the second page of this thread when she mentioned that her words and photos have been copied and used on the silvercollection.it website. I also didn't know that she's been researching silver for over 40 years until she mentioned it at the end.

It would be helpful if there could be a section on the member profile page where members could post their areas of expertise and "credentials" such as years of collecting, selling, and researching various categories of vintage and antique items, or relevant employment, hobbies, skills, degrees, certifications, etc. etc. I tend to be skeptical, ask a lot of questions, and do my own research (which is not always helpful) when I don't know the background or relevant experience of people providing information, or when they don't explain the source of their information.

P.S. I just realized there's already an "Information" page on member profiles, but the few members I looked at didn't provide information on their areas of expertise, etc. I, for one, would find that type of information helpful.

 

Cheryl has repeatedly demonstrated her extraordinary expertise on countless threads here. She’s the go to for us on silver. Perhaps you missed those.

 

It's fair to say she's a silver addict. Not that anyone wants to cure her!

 

Awww, Bear - I appreciate the respect, and right back atcha! Hope all is well with you and yours in this New Year!

Have a miserable cold (Lord knows, I've been vaccinated against everything else), so thought I might relax for a change and visit here. Didn't realize that I now had to present my 'credentials' when posting (silly me!)...

~Cheryl

 

Even though Antiquers says I'm a "Well-Known Member," I'm a sporadic user, and sometimes go for long periods of time when I don't post anything. I check in fairly often, but tend to skim through things quickly. I've learned there's a core group that joined at the beginning in 2014, and that some of you already knew each other from eBay boards. I've been selling on eBay since 2010, but never got involved with any of the various boards. I'm also nearing 80 and don't retain a lot of information that I see or read.

I honestly thought it was possible that Cheryl may have done the enamel restoration in the photos she posted since she seemed so knowledgeable about it. I did an image search to find the website and thought she might have worked for the company at one time.

In any case, for this next week, I'm stuck at my son's home dog sitting. I brought along some of my vintage jewelry so I could research it and add to information I'm compiling in case my husband or daughter have to sell my collection some day (they don't have a clue what things are worth). In fact, I'm learning some of the things I've picked up over the years are worth a lot more than I thought, and some are worth a lot less (a lot of my purchase were not based on specific knowledge of the items). I'll probably be posting some of them here.

 

Joan - there is so much knowledge here, feel sure you'll get some information on your jewelry when posted. Quite a few of us are getting up there in age, and some of us have 'known' each other for over twenty years, but newer members are always welcome, and for the most part we get along well (not that ithere aren't occasional spats).

I'm not typically one to blow my own horn, and believe the majority of members here are the same, but you kind of pushed me to hint that I might have 'credentials'. I can back up what I state as fact rather than opinion, but sometimes simple online searches can verify what I say, and frankly I have so little time these days that it's easier to just let someone try to prove me wrong. I've been a silver junkie for a long time, and as I said before, continue to learn all the time, and like everyone else, make mistakes, and reference sources, both print and online, have errors and omissions, with the internet rapidly spreading misinformation, but invaluable in gaining new information - research is an ongoing process...

So show us your stuff, I know a bit about jewelry, especially if silver, but there are many much more knowledgable joolies here. And is that cute furball your son's dog or yours?

~Cheryl