Featured Works on paper - foxing and other issues

Discussion in 'Art' started by verybrad, Sep 22, 2023.

  1. verybrad

    verybrad Well-Known Member



    I have only quoted the last part of your post but find the entire post insightful. Thank you for responding.
     
  2. 2manycats

    2manycats Well-Known Member

    He was there from 1975-77, so I think not. Don't recall him visiting there much afterwards, either, though I went to a few of their book sales in the early '00s. Fine institution.
     
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  3. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    I've never used dry cleaning products because they are erasers. It is possible to erase an engraving. I guess it's just a question of touch. I might try such a thing on the back of a print, or the borders, but in the image area I would be concerned that fine lines could simply disappear.
     
  4. Chinoiserie

    Chinoiserie Well-Known Member

    Go on. I won't file a lawsuit. Honest. :joyful:
     
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  5. verybrad

    verybrad Well-Known Member

    Great discussion. I am going to try to negotiate the purchase of one or both of the prints. If I get them, I'll come back and share condition and what I do with them. If the process is successful, I have a couple other much more valuable prints that need some attention.
     
  6. KylieS

    KylieS Well-Known Member

    You've had some really great expert advice here - my 2cents worth, as a former art dealer, is to second (or third!) the notion that this greyish discoloration looks to be mainly on the glass (it might even be on the outside of the glass! ; )

    Also, I would NOT recommend spot cleaning with anything liquid - even if it gets the marks off, the paper will change texture and you will see dimples / ripples which have none of the charm of a gently aged piece or paper and stand out worse than anything.

    If it's mildew, brush it with a very soft brush (such as a new makeup brush) and put it in sunlight as already suggested. Moulds hate UV, it will stop the progress. Then it's essential that you use conservation materials to reframe. I have found foxing is usually caused by improper mounting in acid papers, you need rag mounts to prevent acidification, be a barrier to moisture and create adequate space between the glass and the artwork. You may have to live with a few spots but, if you're not prepared to shell out for the professionals, it's the best way.

    I hope they are both better than you expect once out of the mounts! Good luck
     
  7. verybrad

    verybrad Well-Known Member

    I ended up buying both prints for $100 plus shipping ($20.00). They are Chicago etchings by Otto Schneider and dated 1927 and 1928. Am regretting buying the second print, as it has some distinct staining where the glass was cracked that probably will not come out. I was hoping the crack was fairly recent and there would be no staining. Anyway, here is what they look like. I will let you know how I proceed with these.
    os.jpg
    This is the actual back of the print once the backing was removed. The acid staining from the cardboard is maybe the worst I have seen. osa.jpg osb.jpg osc.jpg osd.jpg os1.jpg
    Likewise, this is the actual back of the print os1a.jpg os1b.jpg os1c.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2023
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  8. mirana

    mirana Well-Known Member

    You're right Brad, that is some extreme acid damage. Might be the worst I've seen as well. I wish I knew paper conservator's magic methods for you!
     
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  9. verybrad

    verybrad Well-Known Member

    Was expecting the paper to be extremely brittle but it is not.
     
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  10. mirana

    mirana Well-Known Member

    Well that's surprising and good! I think I'd remat them and consider them "sepia toned."
     
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  11. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    I've never seen acid burn from contact with corrugated go all the way through the paper.

    Are these single sheets of paper, or laminated to a backing material?

    If you're going to treat these, I hope you'll give us specifics on what you are using and doing and why.
     
  12. verybrad

    verybrad Well-Known Member

    Single sheets that were in direct contact with corrugated cardboard.
     
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  13. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Acid damage aside, the etchings are great, I can see why you bought them anyway.
     
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  14. techbiker

    techbiker Well-Known Member

    Verybrad, I've had good luck "dry cleaning" watercolors with eraser crumbs. Often, dry cleaning improves contrast and diminishes the appearance of foxing. I've never had proper equipment to wash paper artifacts, however I've performed some research. You might be surprised by the results of a good dry clean and potentially a mild alkaline wash or two. BPG Washing - MediaWiki (conservation-wiki.com)

    Once surface deposits are removed, there are a variety of washing techniques conservators perform (blotting all the way to steaming, floating, and full submersions). Apparently, foxing is associated with acidity. I've heard that raising (and potentially buffering) the pH of the paper may significantly reduce foxing. At the very least, washing should increase contrast by removing embedded grime.

    Personally, I would never risk bleaching paper art of any value. I would attempt an alkaline wash with a $50 etching though. Note I'm not an expert!
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2023
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  15. verybrad

    verybrad Well-Known Member

    So...... I decided to do nothing with the print of the Art Institute other than to lay it in the sun. It got a few hours and I can't tell any difference. I will mat and frame it as is.

    I decided to experiment with the other print. I laid it out on a flat enamel surface (My chest freezer top... LOL!). I took a soft brush and brushed it as clean as possible. There really was no mold. After testing a small spot, I drenched the print in isopropyl alcohol. It seemed to do nothing.

    I blotted it dry and, then drenched it in hydrogen peroxide. It might have lightened it a bit overall but the result was minimal. I rinsed it with distilled water and blotted it dry again. I, then, drenched it in a mixture of 25% bleach and water. It immediately began to lighten overall. I took my soft brush and began to scrub the areas with the worst stains. It did seem to help but the paper began to abrade a bit. I flipped it and drenched it from the back as well. Moved back to the front and drenched it a second time and blotted dry.

    I, once again, rinsed with distilled water (both sides) and blotted dry. I rinsed it with alcohol (both sides) and blotted it dry again. I kept flipping it and continued to blot both sides until it was pretty dry. I wiped the top surface dry underneath every time I flipped it. I laid a double layered bath towel on top of it and pressed it flat. After a few hours, I removed the towel and let it continue to dry. I rotated sides up periodically, to help it dry evenly. It remained amazingly flat. The next day, I leaned it vertically against a flat surface, as it was completely dry to touch. I left it another day and, then, laid it in the sun (rotating sides up) for a few hours.

    After being in the sun, the paper rippled just a bit at the edges. I believe it would have dried completely flat had I not put it in the sun. The sun seemed to provide no additional benefit to the cleaning. Here is the result.
    os1d.jpg os1e.jpg os1f.jpg

    The color lightening is fairly uniform overall. The area I scrubbed with the brush is along the diagonal stain line and is a bit lighter. It did lighten the stain a bit but also started to remove the building images as well. Stains were only lightened by the process overall. The washing did help to remove a crease in the paper. It did not seem to hurt the plate impressions that were fairly light to begin with.

    Had this print not been so badly damaged, I think the process would have been a benefit overall. As it stands, I don't think it is ready to mat and frame. I do not know where I go with this now. I may try to research further for additional treatment. My other option is to cut this into two smaller prints that would remove the most damaged areas.

    I will go over my rationale for treatment in a subsequent post.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2023
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  16. verybrad

    verybrad Well-Known Member

    Let me start by saying that this was an amateur experiment. I used materials on hand after reading about paper conservation and thinking about it a bit. Much of what I read was pretty complex and involved chemicals that I had no ready access to. There was not a lot of how-to information regarding stain removal. A couple of things struck me overall that pertained to what I was planning. First was the use of some kind of alkalinizing agent to counteract the acidification of the paper. The second was the use of alcohol to prep the paper and inhibit fiber expansion.

    I will address the second aspect first. I have a little first-hand experience in using alcohol to expell water. I routinely use it when washing bottles, vases, etc. that are hard to dry inside. Once clean, I use a little alcohol to expell water and facillitate drying. Consequently, this made some sense to me. Using alcohol in the paper washing process did seem to help and I believe it facillitated drying. I was amazed at how flat the paper dried without using some kind of complex drying process or aparatus. Not being able to dry the paper and retain flatness was my greatest fear in tackling paper washing.

    The use of bleach came in an act of desperation. Nothing I was doing seemed to help the cleaning of the print. The alcohol or plain distilled water did not seem to do anything. Hydrogen peroxide (which is a weak acid) also did little. I knew that I needed to de-acidify the paper at some point. The plan was to use baking soda for this but I was making no progress. I considered using some other kind of cleaning agents, including amonia or sodium hydroxide (lye). I was concerned about residue and/or lingering effects. I had read from one source that up to a 50% solution of bleach could be used. I decided to use a 25% solution and rinse thoroughly after treatment. I do not know if there will be any long term problem associated with using bleach. With the state that this print was/is in, I don't think it matters much.
     
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