Featured Mystery Carving - Portion of Totem? - Age/Origin Unknown

Discussion in 'Tribal Art' started by finders, Mar 16, 2023.

  1. finders

    finders Member

    I acquired this piece perhaps 15 years ago and have solicited views in various forums but with no definitive result. It is obviously part of a larger piece - perhaps a totem or something similar. Of fairly substantial size - about 12" to 15" tall. There is an old iron hook on the top which may have been added at some point for display purposes. I suspect the identity of the wood would be helpful - I've received two opinions: cedar and poplar and I do not have the skills to assess either. In any case, while browsing through this forum thought to share. Welcome any/all coments/opinions. thanks head1.jpg head3.jpg head2.jpg
     
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  2. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    In general, the word totem would usually imply something from the Northwest Coast area of the US and Canada, Washington State, British Columbia; Alaska (though actually the word and concept was imported from farther east, and erroneously applied to "totem poles"); and stylistically, this is not from that area. It appears to be the top part of something, perhaps; but such a face would not appear as the top of a totem pole.
    Wood does not look like red or yellow cedar to me.
    Other than that, I've got nothing. A photo of the back might be helpful.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2023
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  3. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    In addition to the back, please post photos of the top and bottom, where a cross section of the wood would be visible (at least to some extent).
     
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  4. finders

    finders Member

    Thanks for the comments. I thought I had a photo of the back but can't locate and I'm away from home. Will definitely take requested photos and post once I return home.
     
    kyratango likes this.
  5. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    those are referred to as ...almond eyes... and not used in North America..
     
  6. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Seems like an overly broad generalization....... Even if true with regard to Native American art, there are other folk traditions in North America.

    @finders, can you tell us where you are and where you acquired the carving?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2023
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  7. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    yup , it is !
    & since Totem was suggested ......that's where I went .

    If there is a mask or face carving tradition in North America that uses this style of eye and socket , I'd be interested to know from where and whom it comes.

    .
     
  8. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Mexico is in North America, as well as Latin America. I have seen Mexican folk masks with similar set and shape eyes. Usually painted, but this one also has traces of paint.
     
  9. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    I'll have to be more careful with my use of continental terms then....;)..:kiss:
     
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  10. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    You're on the same continent.;) I must say, I often have to think about countries in the Europe-Asia borderland too, which one is actually on which continent.
     
  11. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    @finders, please excuse us. We often go off on tangents not entirely related to the original post. And my comments in this post are not intended to suggest that your carved head is NW Coast.

    I am not exactly sure of your criteria, but in a non-exhaustive search looking for Native American carvings with eyes depicted with sunken sockets, prominent lids, and almond shaped eyeballs I found a few that seem to fit - this one most closely - a Tlingit mask:
    Tlingit Doctor.jpg
    https://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/databases/common/image_dup.cfm?catno=16.1/ 995

    A few others come close:
    Tlingit Hootsnahoo.jpg
    https://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/databases/common/image_dup.cfm?catno=19 / 917

    Nuu-Chah-Nulth mask.jpg
    https://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/databases/common/image_dup.cfm?catno=16 / 1939

    BC mask.jpg
    https://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/databases/common/image_dup.cfm?catno=16 / 925
     
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  12. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    guess I'm wrong then..
     
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  13. finders

    finders Member

    No apologies please! I'm totally enjoying the discussion... As a novice I'm finding it quite an education. To respond to an earlier question I honestly can't recall where I acquired this piece... I'm located in the Washington DC area, a highly diverse international community so I often find items from other cultures near and far.
    Regarding my reference to totem... I used the term more in a generic sense... This because the peace obviously was originally part of a larger structure... And it appears never to have been " in the round".... Too bad I'm not at home to share photos of the back top and underside. But I'll be back home in about 10 days and that will be at the top of my to-do list.
    Finally.... Prompted by your image search above, I ran a Google image search of One of my photos and kept being directed to Inuit and or opvik (new to me). In any case, I welcome any further discussion and apologize for not being able to contribute more myself.
     
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  14. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    It is just hazardous to make absolute statements about almost anything - at least anything involving humans.
     
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  15. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    I found a few that seem to fit........

    is far from a ringing endorsement .....

    & the one most closely ,

    are classic Tlingit shamans eyes , rolling back in the sockets in a state of trance, with thick dramatic eyebrows above the sockets.
    & the eyeballs are smooth and well rounded , not slits carved out of the eyelids.

    while they may seem close to you , a quick glance ....and to me they are anything but !
     
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  16. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member


    No, not identical (which I did not claim), and clearly a different cultural origin (as I indicated, I don't believe @finders head is NWC), but similar enough to belie your blanket statement that such forms do not occur in "North American" carvings.

    Inuit stone face.jpg
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Inuit_mask,_Canada_-_Arctic_Museum.jpg
     
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  17. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    I'll modify the statement......... wood carvings..
     
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  18. finders

    finders Member

    Finally have the opportunity to take additional photos to include a clearer photo front on. I'm hoping that someone might be able to conclude something about this mystery piece by studying the carving marks as an indication of the type of tool. I think more importantly, perhaps someone can identify the type of wood. As you can see from the back photo, the carving was crudely detached from a larger item.... There are " nail holes" visible. The photo of the top provides indications of age as well as position within the larger carving. Painfully the bottom indicates an effective decapitation using modern tools! In any case, sorry for the delay. Hopefully the interest is still there in solving this mystery or at least getting closer. Thanks!
     

    Attached Files:

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  19. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    Appreciate the photos, but at the moment I've no additional thoughts, sorry.
     
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  20. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    The most accurate way of identifying wood is by examining a small sample under a microscope. You might try to find a botanist in a nearby university who could provide assistance - either with identification or suggesting other specialists in your area.
     
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