Various items found while cleaning out my mothers storage

I am offended that you are offended by this

Stop offending me

 

Ya right Terry......it's too late for that !!

 

I have to agree with Komokwa on this.

 

I am a person who lost numerous family in the Death camps of Nazi Germany and they were people like you and me, to describe them as "dead Jews" is disrespectful and cold hearted, to the Nazi's and their ilk they would be dead jews. No class anymore. Just as an aside, other peoples ignorance does not offend me I just consider the source and perhaps their lack of understanding and knowledge.

 

My uncle's entire family died in the camps. They were, just as is said, dead Jews.

 

No, no they weren't....they were so much more than that !!

They were fathers & mothers & sisters & brothers , uncles & aunts !
They were friends & colleges & owners & staff.
They were shop keepers & artists, professionals & Rabbis .

They were folks just like you and me , who were set upon by the most nasty of villains , not for what they did, not for who they were, but for what the believed in.

They deserve better than to be remembered by a disparaging remark.

To the Nazi's they were dead jews.......because they were seen as disposable human trash.....but I've never sat around a passover table and heard them referred to....as that !

 

Those people in the photos are somebody's family.

 

I'm not disparaging anyone. My cousins have no family on their father's side. But using a phrase such as dead Jews isn't anything other than descriptive. I do not believe the original intent was in any way disparaging either.

Anyone who is killed was someone's family, whether it be my uncle's parents, my dad's best friend at Cassino, or the millions who've died since in pointless conflicts with murderous intent. There is, in the end, no difference. The 21 year old I knew who was knifed three years ago simply for being who he was is as individual and valid as any of those who've gone.

Biafra. Omagh. Warrington. Kosovo. Mostar. Auschwitz. Aleppo. No real difference, same result. Dead people.

 

I think this is where we agree, to disagree.

 

I will point out one thing though......again , without having seen that photo.....each and every one of those bodies had numbers tattooed on their arms by the monsters that killed them ...and therein lies the difference.

 

The rail museum in Lancaster, PA may want the train piece.
I like the map.

 

I missed this thread the first time around. I'm almost wishing I missed it now.

I have a similar reaction to Komo's. I've never liked when people are referred to as "Jews" or "Wasps" or "Gays" or "Blacks." To my ear, it turns people into objects and lumps all people of a similar background or disposition into a class, stereotypes and all. These words have a very different connotation than the corresponding adjectives, which lend themselves much more to seeing an individual not as a thing, but a human being with a variety of characteristics. If no one ever objectified another person, the Holocaust wouldn't have occurred in the first place.

These types of photos are disturbing because the people in the photos suffered horrible experiences and somehow it doesn't feel right to hear them talked about as a bunch of bones as if they never were alive, never had to endure anything horrific.

I realize that people have different ways of dealing with the awful things that occur in life, and we all probably have our own ways of distancing ourselves from them when we need to. But it's one thing to do it in one's head, and another to use language out loud or in writing that's likely to stir up deep, painful feelings in others.

The very large Jewish population in the area in Poland/Russia where my father's parents were born was almost completely wiped out. I can't say that, or write it, or even think it without breaking out in tears.

A deep nerve is being touched here for me, and clearly for at least a few other members. Please respect that and be sensitive to it.

 

I'd like to apologize if I came on too strongly here. I do have a lot of feelings around these issues, plus didn't sleep much last night so was a bit touchy.

I know I have a tendency to lecture sometimes, and sorry if this was one of those times.

This is a wonderful group, and I hope I didn't offend anyone.

 

It's hard to see how you could offend anyone by pouring out your feelings on a matter close to your heart.....at least here !

 

Thank you, Komo.

 

What I see happening here to some degree is a demonstration of the inadequacy of language and the written word. Of course these people were much more than dead Jews but, in the essence of language, they were dead Jews. What connotation we give to this phrase determines how we react to it. The accompanying descriptors add to this. The word piles might create a different connotation than stacks. I don't know.

How do we talk about these things without some language that might be disturbing to others? While some sensitivity in approach is desirable, don't automatically denigrate someone for using language that may be inadequate to impart the enormity of the emotional content. What can be seen as disrespect may be a lack of sensitivity and the inadequacy of our language given the circumstances.

 

I agree that wherever there are profound feelings, words often feel inadequate. Either no choice of words seems right or, sometimes, it can feel like everday words are too weak or to mundane to fit the situation.

 

IMHO,there is nothing wrong with having a conversation about this horrific event if the tone is respectful. It is the wording that the OP used that is disturbing. It lacks sensitivity for others.

 

Not just the words , Pearls.......but the person behind them.....

His reply to my ' civil ' question included a personal comment that I took offence at.....& for good reason....

"They're words. Just simple words. Why be bothered by them ? ..................... and i'm sorry you take offense to such trivial things."

It's 2015 , & the words being thrown around on social media are no longer & never have been...Just simple words !

& as far as ' trivial ' .....if it really was, then we here would not be expending breath and keystrokes on the matter , in the 1st place !!!

 

Oh, & while I'm at it , I put directly to all non Jewish members here that you can not fully understand the difference between .... He's Jewish & He's a Jew .

Even now the debate among Jewish people as to whether ' Jew' is a derogatory term , continues unabated , & unresolved .