Apache basket (?)

I purchased this basket and my somewhat limited knowledge said possible Apache origin.

The seller, of course, disclaimed all knowledge.

Can you wonderful people let me know if I’m in the ballpark?

 

I am afraid this basket is a very typical import from Pakistan, which has been prolific with baskets copying SW designs. I have had some in my hands that still have the Made in Pakistan label.

The coils of Apache baskets are composed of three fine wood rods (willow or cottonwood), and sewn with thin split strands of the same woods. The Pakistani basket such as yours are made with grass bundles, sewn with split palm leaves.

I should say that very similar baskets are made in several African countries - Uganda, Rwanda, and South Africa - also of various grasses and palm fibers, which have also been imported.

Designs are easily copied by any competent basket maker. Materials are a better way to distinguish origin.

If you would like to learn more about baskets, I can recommend two good sources. For SW Native American baskets, Southwestern Indian Baskets: Their History and Their Makers, by Andrew Hunter Whiteford. And for a good introduction and overview of international baskets, Art of the Basket: Traditional Basketry from Around the World, by Bryan Sentance.

 

@2manybooks's expert advice above is worth repeating.

And I'd be wary of that seller who disclaimed all knowledge.

 

above u can see the rod coiling , and flat rim.

that twisted fibre on Yan's basket rim , is a red flag.......

 

I have been searching and googling and can't seem to find what type of edging is used on Apache baskets. I found a very tightly woven large basket and it looks old. But the rim is finished in almost a herringbone type of stitch. Also the very center has a square 4 corners type of finish, not a coil. I thought I heard once that means it is NOT Native American. It doesn't look like any of the Pakistani copies I see pictures of either.

 

Hi @Mom23. Welcome to antiquers. We'd love to help you, but probably you'd be better off starting a new thread if you see that button on the main tribal page, and be sure to add pictures so we can see your basket.

In the meantime, I can tell you that some Native American baskets from Arizona have a four-part start, at the center of the basket, can that look like a square.

 

I agree with 2manybooks, this is a contemporary "fake" Indian basket made in Pakistan.

Missionaries introduced the practice, showing the weavers photos of Indian baskets, and asking them to make copies, supposedly to provide a source of income to the local population.

It proved so successful, that the Pueblo of Santo Domingo (last time I stopped there) now sells Pakistani baskets, minus the paper tags that say "Made in Pakistan." And not a single locally-made Indian product in their popular stop on I-25 between Santa Fe and Albuquerque.

 

@Mom23 - as @Potteryplease has suggested, we will need to see photos of your basket in order to help with identification, and starting a new thread would be best. Please post several views, including details of the center/start of the basket, and the edge. Select "Full Size" for your photos (rather than "Thumbnails"), which makes it easier to see them.

As for your questions about Apache baskets, the photo that @komokwa posted above is a typical Western Apache basket and shows their usual simple overcast stitch on the rim. Jicarilla Apache weavers used a plaited herringbone stitch on the edges of their coiled baskets.

 

I would not rely on web sites when researching Indian baskets. Far better to invest in the books recommended by 2manybooks. It will save you money in the long run, to say nothing of the frustration of having to deal with "misinformation."

And while we are addressing "Apache" baskets, there is actually no such thing. There are 7-10 independent, sovereign, tribes included in the so-called "Apache" tribes, including the Mescalero, Chiricahua, Jicarilla, Lipan, Western Apache, White Mountain Apache, and San Carlos Apache (depending on who one asks), and every tribe is politically autonomous, they speak several different languages, and have distinct cultures. Each is a separate Indian nation/tribe. So it depends on which tribal basket you are asking about, as 2manybooks pointed out.