Featured Antique ?? Seal ...a few questions

In those parts of any society where seals were used to seal documents, invoices, or letters of a private or confidential nature, people could hardly impress their peers by having a seal. After all, their peers had them too.

Of course, you could try to impress by having a fancy handle, more elaborate or expensive than your neighbours or colleagues had. But that goes for everything that can be 'pimped'.
In general some people wanted a nice handle on their seals because they liked to handle nice things, just like many of us do today.
As for family crests, some families have them, some don't. If your family has one, it has to do with your family's history. In many countries, including my own, family crests have to be registered to be recognized. Faux crests can easily be checked in a country's register.

My grandmother was given a seal with her initials in the 1910s to use for private mail. It was a simple metal seal with a handle made of one of the early plastics (I haven't tested it). Hardly a status symbol, I'd say.
She also used a more formal yet equally simple seal to seal the envelopes of invoices. She did the administration for her father's business and clients wanted their invoices to be confidential, no chance of servants steaming the envelopes to read the content.

The business seal was lost in a fire, but I still have my grandmother's private seal with her initials.
I don't give a hoot who misinterprets its purpose and sneers at it. I know it was used, and I cherish it because she sealed her love letters to my grandfather with it, without any intention other than for them to be private.

This is it, apologies for the blurry photos, it is very dark here at the moment.



Her initials, partly filled with sealing wax.

 

Why people buy a beamer then? If all their Friends have one?

Impressing is possible. As the working class didn't have any.
I'm sure if i seal a letter nowadays i again impress at least some people.

And my last argument.
I didn't invent that story about that 19th cent. hype, so i ain't going to diffend it in whatever discussion is thrown up.
This communly known explanation can be found in antique books (i have) and everywhere information can be gathered.

Another quick found reference

Why do early 20th century seals then exist while common usage already was gone half 19th?

I am not going to spoil time diging into all my books to prove.
I respect anyones knowledge, please don't try to duscuss (undermine) mine each time. Why else should i respond with a good determination?
Believe that explanation or not, it doesn't hurt me if one doesn't
Last thing in said about it. Peace? Please?

 

I have no idea what you're talking about, and I have no idea why you are being combative towards me for the umpteenth time.

I have not had any interaction with you since you were banned (and even just before that), this is the first time since then that I alluded to anything you said, and you know that.
Your ban, btw, was entirely your own doing, not mine, and not anyone else's, yours.

If we happen to post in the same thread, it isn't because I want to interact with you, I don't.
I noticed that you replied to one of my posts in another thread, directly to me, even though I hadn't posted anything about you or any of your posts. I only posted about an item. So you are clearly the one "trying", whatever it may be.

As I said, I have no wish whatsoever to interact with you.
Your quick temper, your failure to listen to reason (i.e. moderators), and your dismissive attitude towards things you don't like, make you the kind of person I'd rather not encounter in any situation. But you are here, so be it.
Unfortunately you are also doing your best to spoil someone else's thread, again.

This is a forum, and I am a member here, so you will come across my posts. Since you think that I am "trying it each oppertunity with" you, and even suggest that it is my "fault" that you got yourself banned, I suggest you put me on ignore.

Now stop this aggression, it doesn't help anyone.

 

What amazing artistic skills they used to create 'repros' a century ago-an antique of an antique.Certainly a level of craftsmanship rarely seen in modern replicas-only in the highest $ items or forgeries.Maybe that's what the best of Hollywood Regency was trying to do (but in an over-the-top way !).
PS-If you want an impressive antique buy a great forgery (?).

 

Just to clarify my post #23: Wout's post #22 has been edited, it was far more nasty. My reply alludes to some of the things that have now been edited out.

 

Right. As i correcties myself.
Perhaps you could jump on it less fanatic?

Still ... why discuss everything i say each oppertunity? At everything i react on this forum? Everyone van find that back (recent chest forum for instance).

Happy wink

Again happy wink.
Still your goal? Or isn't it?

I log out now. This game you play is not mine.

 

but suspect it is actually porcelain.

I thought so too....but enlarged the pic....and took Luci's word that it's stone....and it does look like stone to me..

she has it in hand ....so..

 

I will quit nonsens. From now on. I promess.
If 'everybody' else also does/would (w/ promess), it would be nice for everyone (incl me).

 

I always thought that seals kinda went out of fashion after envelopes were used. My own theory, LOL, but you often see in movies, someone from the Regency period breaking a seal on a letter -- no envelope. But I like seals just as a little objet d'art.

 

Correct, it's definitely stone. No question. It's got the weight, temperature and feel of stone.

In my opinion, the handle is the nicest part of this seal. The metal on it is somewhat low grade, but whatever that stone is has some very nice colors. It's definitely what caught my eye about the piece.

 

Perhaps. It's certainly not impossible for the handle to be stone. It's just that other elements look to me like imitations, of gold, of nicolo, so I am suspicious of the handle as well. I'm not sure I could tell the difference, even with the item in hand, unless the porcelain were chipped. My gut says this is a sophisticated fake.


OTOH, think I see crumbs of sealing wax in some of the crevices, so may actually have been used.

 

My mama had a seal and sealing wax, in the forties. I think I still have it. There was something of a revival as a decorative thing.

OK, hoard hunt. The house has eaten it.

 

And of course my Mom saw to it we (or some of us) had her Family Crest, but then when I got married, and she had two made for DH & I with HIS family name..... what to DO....haha....which to wear, OR use for the fun of it!!! And where are they now.....tucked away.....heck...they're heavy!! AND out of Fad!!!

 

Was it found in the USA or Europe?
I got some insight into coat of arms & motto in US families while researching my wife's family which were well off during the gilded age. There were (and we still have) seals, a gold ring/seal, elaborate book plates with the coat of arms, and old letters between relatives discussing coat of arms and mottos. It was something that seemed fairly important to them, yet what they were coming up with seemed more reconstructed than legitimate.
It was interesting to see this fascination and compare it to my Swedish born grandmother who had ancestors from several noble families. Her uncle still lived on the family estate farm but he and others in the family didn't care at all about that old heraldry stuff.

 

Purchased in USA, but I believe the woman was either French or lived in France based on several items at the estate sale.

 

Solved

 

IMO: interesting item as a riddle. It can't be Russian or East European because of the knight's helmet (or head) which was not used here. Also the coat of arms itself is untypical.
It seems that the Latin motto has different word order, though, is should be "Virtus in Arduis" (not "In Vitrus Ardius") which translates as "Achievement through hard work" or "Excellence through hardship", "Virtue in perseverance", and has been used by quite a few schools in the English speaking world, promoting hard work as the way to success. I am no expert but the word order "In Vitrus Ardius" seems to change that meaning. On purpose or mistake?