Chinese rank badge

Any help or confirmation would be appreciated.
Acquired as Chinese rank badge- pheasant possibly ladies ching dynasty green What do you think.
Same again described as Chinese mandarin duck rank badge ching dynasty red. Hopefully not to bad a gamble. Both are 10 in square




Help with either would help


Thanks Chris

 

I don't know anything about rank badges, but I would expect those who do will want close ups of the stitchery.

From the photos you've provided, I would have guessed rather modern machine embroidery. But photos can be deceptive that way, so ...

edited to add: those who know will likely also want pics of the backs

 

Added a few more pictures,backs stained

 

I have been hesitant to weigh in. While I collect Chinese silk embroideries and am strongly interested in rank badges, I don't have these in hand to look at them carefully. Rank badges are generally 11 inch squares, though. As @Jivvy said, they don't appear to be hand stitched. Usually you see a sun, and while this is not always true, the design is not the detailed clear image, I'm used to seeing.

 

The second pattern appears to be available (and labeled machine embroidery) on ebay.

Two examples shown to compare with your piece. I believe your piece to be higher quality than these two, but machine embroidered.

As @KikoBlueEyes suggests, it's uncomfortable making such proclamations without having the pieces in hand, but my initial guess remains my current guess.

 

@KikoBlueEyes mentioned the size issue.

Unfortunately, if you go to google images and search on "chinese 10x10 embroidery," you'll find scads of similar modern silk textiles (the design of the red one is very popular) sold as table linens.

 

The ribbon border on many old pieces, I think was added to finish the edges since they were removed from old clothing. When you are looking for older pieces, you should see a contrasting border (if there is one); not a border that is integral to the piece such as yours.

 

While I was looking, I saw many museum pieces described as "border added (insert later date)" .

While I wondered about it, I can't believe it didn't occur to me, until reading your post, why the border was added.

 

Early reproductions also used the contrasting ribbon border, so on their own it isn't an absolute indicator. @Jivvy - you spotted the real issue at first - these are machine made stiches. This is what is so hard to read with a photo. Some of the better older pieces are darn near perfect, but you can see the variations by looking closely.

 

Thanks for the info. I’ll have to decide how to use them now. Then again that is half the fun of buying blind. I love a gamble.
Thanks again. Chris

 

I hope you didn't pay too much.

 

Me, too! It's how I've learned most of what I know about oldish stuff.

 

This is a replica