Featured Trying to find more info on Antiques

***Hello Everyone!

Quick Story: My dad collected Antiques for over 50 years. As a kid, my dad had an Antiques Store. My dad is getting older and recently sold his house. The house was filled with his most precious finds: Chinese Potteries, Porcelains, Paintings, Etchings, Prints, Tobys, etc, and many many Antique and Rare Books (several are signed) some books are as old as 1600's.


My dad gave me everything. I was the only kid so he wanted me to have all of his most precious treasures. I feel blessed. I will be posting a few things on here in the next few weeks in hope of getting a few more information on certain pieces. I still have 12 boxes of Antique books that are unopened so it will take me some time but will try to post the best finds on here. ***


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About this piece:
- Description
Joseph and Potiphar's wife. c.1759
Etching and engraving
- Frame 18" x 21"
- Title : Le Chaste Joseph
Artists :
Print made by: Jacques Firmin Beauvarlet
After: Jean Baptiste Nattier
Published by: Jacques Firmin Beauvarlet

Note : Trying to find out if this is an Original from 1759?
My dad acquired this piece years ago from a Covent. The story of Joseph (Old Testament) is written in French on the back.

 

Can you remove it from the frame without damaging it? Here is one at the British Museum https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/P_1935-0520-14

 

Hi Laura! Thanks so much for your reply! Yes I found this one too at the British Museum. I did remove it but unfortunately I didn't take any pictures before I put it back in. But there were no markings or anything written in the back.

 

The best indicator is to look at the paper. It should be laid paper. Look for lines running the length and across the paper. I would suggest removing from the frame and storing it between acid free paper. The current frame materials you have are acidic. While you have it out you can hold it up to the light and look for the lines and a possible watermark. Watermarks are a good way to date paper. Finding engravings from this era is not that uncommon, they printed lots of them. If I was going to put this up in my house I would have some conservation done first to address the spots at the bottom.

 

Hello Lithographer. This is great information ! I really don't know much about prints so this is very good to know ! I will go ahead and remove it from the frame in this case. I will look for watermarks and post an update! I have several old prints so I will invest in acid free paper for storage. Would it be ok to roll it up and store them in round poster boxes? Or is that a bad idea? The spots did concern me as well.

 

Store flat, separate all prints with acid free paper. You don’t want condition issues from one print to migrate to another. I sandwich the stack of paper and prints between foam core board, tape the edges, and then put it in a trash bag to keep the dust out. That’s about the cheapest method I have come up with.

 

Thanks very much! You made me learn something valuable my friend, most appreciated. I am currently removing from the frame, will update on watermarks and other findings soon.

 

Update: I took it out of the Frame. I looked through a strong light and couldn't find any Watermarks. I do however see the lines all over so it's really laid paper. I appreciate once again all your help regarding this and I wish you a good evening!

 

Laid paper would be most likely, but wove paper had been introduced by then, and it caught on pretty quickly.

With all the titles consistent with the British Museum example, you're probably okay.

Just as a side comment: I think it's a bit unusual having the arms overlap the image as they do here. The arms and lettering under a print were often done by third party specialists.

I found several examples online, none of which looked any different from yours.

This example gives dimensions:
https://philamuseum.org/collection/object/735

Here's one that sold (unframed) for 60€:
https://www.catawiki.com/de/l/28513...-jean-marc-nattier-1685-1766-le-chaste-joseph

I didn't find any that specified the type of paper (except for one that said "thick").

 

Thanks for the reply! It's funny you mentioned that because I was just reading about Laid paper and Wove paper. It mentions Laid Paper started coming around in 1750s so that would match the age of this Print. It's so interesting for me to learn all this. I have much to learn still but I really like researching and learning! The only thing that got me is the price, 60 Pounds (US $70) seems very little to me given this is close to 300 years old! I understand there were several made but it amazes me how little they are worth. Just my opinion

 

That's Euros, not pounds, but it's no improvement.

 

the spots are called Foxing.....bad for paper...as is the acid that turns the paper brown..

And since u bring it up.....

G-d bless your Dad..... but his treasures may be more his....than treasures !
Just cuz something is old.....doesn't make it valuable ....or rare.
Just because he had an antique store, doesn't mean he kept all or most of the best stock in the store.
I'm sure his likes were influenced by his taste , as opposed to just value, and there's always the things that didn't sell.....that stayed behind...

Oh, you may indeed have some valuable items left to you....and we'll let you know in no uncertain terms.....

 

Thanks for the comment! You are totally right about that. Something valuable to a person don't mean it's valuable in price.

I have done lots of researches already and found several valuable pieces. This forum is just one more place for me to get insights but I will admit that I take everything with a grain of salt as well I like do my own researches. I don't just take a stranger's word for granted but also, it would be foolish not to listen to what people with experience on certain subjects have to say.

I am sure that some people on here have a lot of expertise so I am confident that I can get some good advices!

 

Also, just to clarify, my dad sold the Store back in the 80s so everything that I have was from his private collection, not form the store

 

most of those here who will offer help , have expertise that runs deep....but as you say....we are strangers to you, so indeed, you have the final word.

 

OK.....BUT....
I owned a fine art gallery.......and my own personal collection is far from the cream of the crop that the gallery presented to the public.
It is though, the items that touched me in a way that I could not live without having them in my personal space !!

& those do include some misses....that were not hits !

 

Yes I understand what you are saying.. I Posted a few more things tonight but the best part of this collection are the books. I found several of them already and they are no contest the most valuable items in this collection. I see that you live in Montreal. I am also in Quebec so if you know about books, you may be able to give me some insights on several French Canadian books that I have ! I have lots of American , British and French books but also quite a few coming from our part of the Country

 

From 1990 to 2002, I ran the finest contemporary 1st Nations Northwest Coast Art Gallery on the eastern seaboard....here in Montreal.

Quebecois books....rare books.....good books....not so much in my wheelhouse !

But I'll help where I can !

exlibrus & 2manybooks.....may prove more helpful , as well as roaring20's...who's research skills are upper deck !

 

ps..... Go Habs !!

 

Well, no antique dealer should be without a good library.....and sounds like Dad had a good eye !