Featured Antique Northwest Coast Halibut / Fish Club , Tlingit .. Kwakiutl ..

A few years ago, I bought these Northwest Coast fish / halibut clubs as circa early 1900's.

Tribal attribution is , was uncertain .

I looked everywhere possible to find similar or comparable items and came to my own conclusion from what I could find , that the dating was indeed close enough to satisfy me.

Now, I've put them in an April auction, but their expert there told me that they see them around, and they are more circa 1950's .

I'm not buying that....but as always, I'm open to be proven wrong....specially when my own expertise is being questioned. ( I'm very touchy , like that... )

Now, as much as I luv these , the ones out there in the major museums will blow yer socks off,,,,,and I know that these are not mid 1800's.....these are not them , but the ones I've seen recently from east coast museums are very much in line with my previous findings.

Ok...enuf blah blah......
I'm looking for a broad base of help.....eyes aplenty ! even if you're not an expert.

Anything relevant ..... for or against my assertion of antiquity ..... any questions or comments at all..... will be most welcomed.

Komokwa

 

Similar to this one, yes ?

Seal or Halibut Club (stevenmichaancollection.com)

 

Interesting to look at , @komokwa . I have a halibut hook i will have to post for your opinion. It has age , but not sure how old it is . My Friend Mrs. Smythe who died around 1979 at age 80 plus gave it to me when I was a kid . Her father had been an archeologist / anthropologist in New Mexico / Arizona when she was a little girl , and she had traveled to China in 1926 and lived there as her husband was a geologist working in the oil industry . She had amazing Native American baskets all over her house , she kept sea shells and things in them , when she passed , they were either sold at a garage sale or her family took them....never did find out , as she passed in a rest home shortly after they put her there . She had dementia at the end ....

Wonderful woman, taught all us kids a lot , had all the national Geographics since 1898 and would allow us to look at them whenever we wanted . I owe her a lot , as she shaped my interest in the world ........

 

saw this also ......

Fish Club | RISD Museum

 

yes, I've only seen this one morecently and it's unusual that the carving stops before the end of the club......as if it was sold....unfinished

 

no help....but absolutely gorgeous

 

Knowing absolutely nothing about these. I would look at them from the perspective of use wear. The top club, shows wear around the hole at the base, indicating that something (leather strap maybe?) was in there and rubbed around the edges of the hole. Also the handles.....would they be used by bare hands or gloved hands....what kind of wear or patina would that create over a long period of use? would skin oils color the wood or would gloved (or mittened) hands dull the wood.
I have no answers.......just thoughts.

 

I know nothing but I'm fascinated. In looking around I only seem to have questions and not good ones I'm sure.

Is it common to find a clenched fist in NW club carvings?

I found this frustrating discussion about a seal club and the small eyed creature in the carving. I'm thinking yours also have small eyes. The frustrating part is that for me the image won't enlarge so I can't see details but interesting anyway.

https://alaska.si.edu/record.asp?id=15

 

if indeed either of these saw use.....it wasn't overly heavy use.
smacking a fish.....well ....lets just say you don't catch a halibut every day....
and it would expect that they were cleaned after use....and upon being collected....
these were highly respected tools..

 

at 88 cm...or 35 inches....is what separates a seal club, from a 17 1/2 & 20 inch fish club.
but both look similar in pictures...

both the fist and turbillon , I have not seen elsewhere, so I can't take a way from that , an older or younger carving...only a more involved workmanship.

both lanyard holes are proper.....and there is an old gouge to the thumb area....

 

Do you know, what kind of wood are these made from?

 

I'm not sure.
Yew wood , would be a strong consideration....
they're not cedar or pine or any soft wood.....as that would be culturally incorrect....inefficient ....and I've held and swung them...
NO...not at any fish!!!!

 

I can not help at all, but so interesting.
I thought at first you meant golf clubs... LOL.
I am not fully awake yet.

 

Another term to search for is 'priest', as that's what a fish-killing club is sometimes called in my neck of the woods.

 

I have fished most my life up and down the pacific coast including Mexico most of California and Canada. Most of my experience is from "party" boats but I have been in everything from kayaks to large 120' sportfisher's. I've done my share of Halibut fishing. They are mean fish and range in size from 10# up to several hundred (barn doors). Even the average size 20-40# are extremely strong and are dangerous in small spaces. I've used clubs knives and gaffs to subdue and capture fish like this including sharks and giant squid. Every attempt is made to subdue a fish at the gunwale before you bring it on board. So you are not only hitting the fish with the club but also inevitably hitting the side of the boat and the terminal tackle used to hook the fish.

This club doesn't show signs of use. I think it's gorgeous, but had it been used on trips that actually caught halibut it would have numerous impact marks. The handle would have had a strap attached to it and would show character marks. The handle where the strap attaches is too small to me and would not stand up to the stress and pressure of repeated impacts. This is salt water fishing usually in bad weather. Clubs gaffs and knives for collecting line caught fish are out in the elements, close at hand. These items, even in one season, show sun and water damage: pitting fading and overall deterioration.

 

I'd think older than 1950's, but that is still 70 years ago, so maybe the difference between 1950 and 1920 would not be that significant in appearance and general patina.....but if the implication of "they see them around" is that they might be fakes - well, no, they aren't fakes. The patina looks very good to me.
And I don't see any reason to think they might not have whacked a few fish.
So I know I'm waffling a bit; but they could easily be 1920; and could probably be as late as 1950, but I tend towards the earlier date as more likely. And I find the rather dismissive attitude of the auction "expert" to be somewhat annoying, and would tend to believe that you are most likely more of an expert than he is.

 

Sir.......yer preaching to the choir .....

In 1958, Haida carver Bill Reid (1920–98) and Nimpkish carver Douglas Cranmer began recreating traditional Haida houses and totem poles for the University of British Columbia Museum of Anthropology. Reid has since been acknowledged as the leader of the Northwest Coast artistic revival.....

The Potlatch ban ended in 1951, and the 2 decades before that are sometimes known as the dead time where ( with minor exceptions...) there was no carving of any kind going on on the coast . They had lost their traditional ways , and their culture was in Museum basements...

The thicker club is a well known design , while the thinner one...has a totem pole configuration in a more folk art vibe.....as seen by the fist .....which is not a NWC design.
It may be that the clubs are from different ages....as how and when they were collected is lost in the fullness of time !

 

Komo, I think yours is beautiful, but I'm just not seeing age or wear on it....even if it was kept in a glass case, I'd think it would start to color a bit more.....I also think the carving looks a bit "too modern" for early 1900s....BUT that's just MY opinion!

 

that's ok....
I see the age....by the carving and design.....and the wear.....like I said..not much....but chips, dings, discolouration, dents.....and of course ...I've run my hands over both of them...

can you see the open crack on the handle of the 1st one?

 

Yes, I can, Komo,......but like I said, JUST my opinion, and I'm NO expert on those, YOU are, so take what I say with a huge grain of salt!!!!