Two J. Gould Birds Lithographs

They are about 14" x 19" visible area. Appear to have some age but don't know how to tell the year edition. Should I take them out of the frames?
Thanks

 

They are very nice. I cannot see the frame in any of your photos, nor how they are backed, I cannot advise you on that. Thanks for including the size - you can probably search for the edition as per the size (the mat covers some).

 

Looks like the mats are acidic... they should be taken out of the frames.

By the way, here is a previous thread about a Gould print. Different circumstance, so not sure if it will help or not.

https://www.antiquers.com/threads/help-dating-gould-lithograph.2116/

 

Very nice.

 

The sheets size are 21 1/2" x 14 1/2". I believe the lithos are from the original first or second edition but not sure which one. Maybe the second.

The first edition of A Monograph of the Trogonidae, or Family of Trogons was published 1835-1838, 36 hand-colored lithographic plates.
The second was published in 1858-75, the plates having been redrawn, and 12 new species were added. The depiction of the birds was more elaborate with arranged perches of tropical plants and occasional background landscapes.

Seems like both editions have the same sizes of the plates. Not sure if the species on mine were present in the first one or are from the 12 new.
If not wrong both editions were printed by Hullmandel & Walton. So, not sure what's the deal with "Walter Imp" ?

 

"If not wrong both editions were printed by Hullmandel & Walton. So, not sure what's the deal with "Walter Imp" ?"

Looks like a later edition by a person or company named "Walter" - I believe "Imp" would stand for the word, "impression".

 

I did some extensive research and could not find information on a third or later "original" edition. There are later editions which bear text with the printer's info but they are reprints.

Here is the second folio.
http://www.donaldheald.com/pages/bo...ograph-of-the-trogonidae-or-family-of-trogons

It says that the printer was
Hullmandel & Walton. The image of the plate is not very clear but seems like it reads "Walter Imp" at the lower right corner.

Here are more examples of the second edition. http://www.sotherans.co.uk/Prints/gould/trogons_toucans.php

Cannot get a clear image of the text but seems like some bears "Walter Imp." at the lower right, and other longer text, possibly Hullmandel.
Wonder if only the 12 new plates in the second edition were printed by Walter and the rest by Hullmandel & Walton.

So, it would be really nice if someone can figure if the Walter pieces are from the second edition or later.

 

I've been looking for a little while and haven't found any information. It's an interesting question. I'll keep trying.

 

According to the link below "the drawings were printed by Hullmandel, Walton, Hart and Walter".

have to scroll down a bit

https://books.google.com/books?id=Q...ithographers walton walter Hullmandel&f=false

Charles Joseph Hullmandel (15 June 1789 – 15 November 1850) was born in London, where he maintained a lithographic establishment in Great Marlborough Street from about 1819 until his death. In 1843 he went into partnership with Joseph Fowell Walton (1812 – after 1863), a cousin of the landscape artist and lithographer W. L. Walton, the firm then becoming known as Hullmandel & Walton.

William Matthew Hart (1830-1908) was an English bird illustrator and lithographer who worked for John Gould.
Hart started medical training, but was unable to complete his studies for financial reasons. He began working for Gould in 1851, beginning an association that was to last thirty years.


I am having hard time finding information on who Walter was.
The lithographs from the "family of humming-birds (1849)" were printed by Hullmandel & Walton as well as Walter & Cohn.
https://archive.org/details/monographTrochi5Goul

I guess that is the same Walter and the printing company at some point was called Walter & Cohn.

So, my conclusion is that the prints from the second edition of "family of trogons" were printed by Hullmandel as well as Walter. Maybe the information from the online sources stating only Hullmandel as a printer is incomplete.

Hope to find more on Walter.

 

According to this "Memoir of George Smith" from an old edition of the Dictionary of National Biography, there was also a firm called Hullmandel & Walter at one time. Although that is not on your prints, and it doesn't say who Walter was, thought I'd let you know.
https://books.google.com/books?id=F...AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=hullmandel walter&f=false

 

That is making the things even more confusing. I am finding prints only by Hullmandel or Hullmandel & Walton. Then, only by Walter or Walter & Cohn. Hullmandel & Walter as a company is even bigger puzzle.
Not that all this really matters but it kind of bugs me that I cannot find the Walter identity.

 

Although the Dictionary of National Biography is an authoritative source, mistakes can creep in anywhere. I wonder if it's a typo?

 

Walter Imp by Simon Aylott posted Aug 17, 2020 at 11:04 AM

any information please 15.5”x 22.5

 

Simon - you should start your own thread to ask questions about this item, if the info here doesn't already answer your questions, because this thread is 5 1/2 years old.