Help with lovely octagonal gilt porcelain cups: origin and date?

Hello everyone!

I am hoping that your collective knowledge may help me with a small porcelain mystery.

I recently bought six lovely porcelain cups and saucers from a small Parisian auction house and I've been trying to figure out when/where they are from, without success.
They are octogonal with gilt trellis decoration, which seemingly imitates a reticulated pattern, and their handle is bamboo shaped.

There is a "mark" at the bottom -- five blobs of gold. I thought it might be some kind of cross or quatrefoil, but the shape is not consistent.

Would anyone be able to help me identify similar objects to help narrow down dates/location?

Thanks in advance!

 

Welcome Melian! Beautiful cups! The gilt blob was put there to cover or obscure the mark of the maker of the blanks.

 

Thank you for your response and intriguing suggestion! I was wondering if they were meant to cover the mark but the gold is very similar to the one used on the cup and saucer (very bright/shiny/reflective), so I assumed they were the same.

I don't know a lot about porcelain (my own area is archaeology/Egyptology!)-- do you know why they may have covered the maker's mark?

 

It may have been part of a set put together by a decorator and using blanks from several different manufacturers.

 

It was often done on whiteware sold to decorating firms - usually because the firm producing the china did not want customers to think the china was decorated by the same firm or vice versa.

 

Thank you for your kind and enlightening replies! Would you have any idea of the production time/place according to the shape/decoration? The very fine and white (translucent) porcelain reminded of porcelaine de Paris, but I don't know enough to be able to tell!

 

Unfortunately without a mark it's going to be very difficult to tell you much more. The handle is fairly distinctive which might help at some point but your cups and saucers could be French, German, Austrian or just about any continental porcelain manufacturer. Even the age is difficult to tell. The gold appears in excellent condition which means they are relatively new or they could be old but prized and rarely used.

 

.(my own area is archaeology/Egyptology!)-"

SIDEBAR,...

Your expertise would be a welcomed addition to the site ......as we get Egypt type items on occasion...
u could put that info in your Introduction thread......if u'd care to..

 

Thanks! I'd be happy to help, with the caveat that I avoid providing information about most ancient objects found on the market (either in antiques shops or auctions) because of ethical reasons -- having worked in Egypt and other countries in the region, I can confirm that looting is a serious issue that often brings violence to local communities on top of robbing them from their heritage. And the golden rule of archaeology is that without context, an object looses much if not all of its value! As provenance of ancient objects is often dubious at best, it's my personal/professional opinion that it's better not to encourage the market at all. However, I'd be very glad to help with any classical/Egyptological motifs and iconography found on other objects.

 

to this day the North American 1st Nations items ....held in many museums....and collections......is suspect as to how it was obtained.....

but this is a discussion site....so it's up to you whether to opine on an item , or not....as it may relate to your ethics .

The site may be titled Antiquers .....but we rarely get any ancient items......although there are many new members who consider their 1989 painting.....to be very old !!!
eHehehehe!!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks for the tip about the handle! I fell into a bit of a research rabbit hole and found a very close match for the cup (although the saucer is a slightly different shape). It looks like a version of the square Queen Anne shape that was used with different Japanese-inspired decorative patterns by Wileman and Shelley between 1883-1889. (https://www.shelley.co.uk/The Wileman Square Shape.pdf)

I will keep investigating! Thanks again!