Satsuma vase? Knock off? How do I identify? THANKS!!

I found this board and I am so happy I did! Looks like some great knowledgeable people here.

Anyway, I bought this today from an antique shop for my fiancee for Christmas, as we collect all sorts of antiques. I am unfamiliar with pottery and the like, but this caught me eye, and I was told this is a Satsuma piece, late 1800's.

There are no markings I can find anywhere, but I took the chance for $195.

Anyone have a good idea ion what this actually may be?

It is 12" tall, and 7" wide THANK YOU!

Bill

 

I'm thinking the underneath looks like 1900-1920 wear but wouldn't call it Satsuma. I would call it Majolica and probably Italian or at least Western from that era although it does have the right feel to be Chinese origin. But I have been wrong more times than right.
Cheers
Stephen

 

Thanks Stephen! I appreciate the input thus far!

 

Some of the decoration is like what is on this actual marked Satsuma piece that was under discussion a few days ago. I can see why some would think yours is Satsuma as well.

https://www.antiquers.com/threads/antique-vase.32901/#post-435223

 

I think it's Satusma, Moriaga.

If you google, you will find some similar examples.

But, please, wait for others....I could be dead wrong.

 

Google found this Antiques Board inquiry.....

https://www.antiquers.com/threads/japanese-moriage-satsuma-vase.20832/

 

A very good example of the cross-border influence in determining Chinese vs Japanese, Judy.

 

I am amazed that would even be considered to be Satsuma. Clearly the definition must be incredibly wide. As for moriage it is not even close to the moriage items I have seen. I must be on the other side of the fence in this discussion.

Cheers
Stephen

 

I don't think it's been determined if it's moriaga or slip ware?

 

I think you were told correctly.

 

I guess this is a tough one to agree on? Anyone have a solid answer?I am giving this as a gift, to my fiancee. I dont want to give her something that isnt real.
Thanks!

 

Not sure what it is you still are looking for.
It's late 1800s. It's from Japan. Could also be described as Nippon (which may be more correct). Often described as Satsuma (which may or may not be absolutely correct)

Nippon means Japan
Satsuma is an area in Japan where certain styles of pottery originated.


In my book it is not Moriage.
Moriage is not enamel (shiny). Moriage is clay slip (dull).


What is Moriage?

http://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=45054
http://gotheborg.com/glossary/moriage.shtml

 

Satsuma comes from a particular region of Japan, on the island of Kyushu. It is typically a cream colored stoneware (lower fired than true porcelain), so it does not "ring" when tapped. There is often crazing in the glaze. Gotheborg has a good description of Satsuma and its various decorations:
http://www.gotheborg.com/glossary/satsuma.shtml

As for moriage, Gotheborg defines it:
"Moriage is a slip decoration of raised enamels. It occurs on Satsuma wares as early as circa 1890 but tends to be more carefully applied on early pieces. Moriage also seems to be limited to pieces made outside of the Satsuma domain while being typical for Kyoto Satsuma ware. Crudely applied moriage indicates a dating in the 20th century and was popular on true porcelain well into the 1950s. One of the more popular decorations in this manner is the well known Dragon Ware, where the slip decoration can be so generously applied as to look like cake frosting."
http://www.gotheborg.com/glossary/satsuma.shtml

The term moriage refers to the raised character of the decoration, built up with clay slip. The raised areas can subsequently be decorated with enamels, gilding, or whatever. We have been here before:
https://www.antiquers.com/threads/the-mystery-of-moriage.30096/

 

After reading more, I may be able to explain this Satsuma business a bit better. It seems that "Satsuma" ware was originally produced in the Satsuma region on the island of Kyushu (pretty straightforward so far). It is characterized by the cream colored clay body, described as earthenware or stoneware (the difference being in the firing temperature - lower than porcelain), and the finely crackled glaze.

In the second half of the 19th century, Satsuma "style" ware began to be produced by factories in other regions of Japan. According to Gotheborg, producers in Kyoto favored various styles of moriage decoration on a Satsuma style clay body.

Based on this information, and other examples on the internet, I think @Bill DeRo 's vase can be described as Kyoto Satsuma ware with moriage decoration. I can't pin down dating specifically, but it is my impression that this style of heavy, colorful moriage decoration began in the late 19th - early 20th century, (and may still be being made).

Much of the confusion about Japanese wares comes from early descriptions based on the port the wares were exported from, which might be different from where they were actually produced. There also are different clay bodies (earthenware, stoneware, and porcelain), which can be decorated in a variety of styles. Sometimes a term is applied to the place of origin, the clay body, or the style of decoration, all of which might be combined in different wares by the producers. And, of course, all of this changes over time.