15TH CENTURY ENGRAVED WOODBLOCK/CUT FOUND. NEED ADVICE!...

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by HMAC, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  2. McAdder

    McAdder Well-Known Member

    Here is a digitized Version of the book in an earlier edition, (1853 was the 7th printing)
    https://books.google.at/books?id=Ywg7AAAAcAAJ You find the image on page 80 of the second part. I would say its exactly the image.
    Maybe the woodblocks were made in Paris because they were better or cheaper or whatever. Or there is an earlier french Edition and the blocks were sold and reused.
    It says it has 5 Steel engravings and 532 images in the text making it a typical example of a picture bible of the time.

    Edit: I just saw Debora was the first to find the book online, sorry I overlooked that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  3. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    Super searching.
     
    Christmasjoy likes this.
  4. HMAC

    HMAC Member

    Here are wood block photos of the rear. 20181119_215230 (2).jpg 20181119_215247 (1).jpg 20181119_215247 (1).jpg
     
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  5. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    looks like pages from a french book...
     
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  6. HMAC

    HMAC Member

    Page 19 has the same print as the 2nd block. Interesting!!!!!......
     
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  7. HMAC

    HMAC Member

    Sorry i made a booboo... The 1st photo of the rear belongs to the second one.
    I noticed that bc of the pagar letters on the rear & the title of page 19 of the steel engraved bible.
     
  8. aaroncab

    aaroncab in veritate victoria

    If that 8K offer is still on the table - I'd jump at it. (Of course with full disclosure of the 19th century origin - not 15th century.)
     
  9. HMAC

    HMAC Member

    I think Im gonna keep them...I think they're worth maybe more.
    I was told they might be more if they're the originals.
    They might be one of a kind....Or maybe auction them.
    I have lots of research ahead of me on this one.
    I also found some artwork & artifacts that I will be posting on this board in a couple of days. All these years and we never knew that chest existed. It was camouflaged.
     
    cxgirl likes this.
  10. McAdder

    McAdder Well-Known Member

    I am quite sure they are one of a kind, but i am also sure they are not worth 8K sorry.

    The first edition of the German bible was published 1835. You can buy it in good condition here https://www.klinebooks.com/pages/bo...die-ganze-heilige-schrift-des-alten-und-neuen or cheap in bad condition here https://www.booklooker.de/Bücher/NN+Die-Heilige-Schrift-Volks-Bilderbibel-oder-die-ganze-heilige-Schrift-des-alten-und-neuen/id/A01ytGoD01ZZ0. Might be a good addition to your woodblocks. I cant rule out an earlier (possibly french) edition with the images.

    This was a stereotype Printing with many editions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_(printing), meaning the woodblocks probably were never used for printing itself but only for making the molds for the printing plates.
    It also means there is a lot of this book around, that's why I would only buy a first edition in good condition.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  11. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    FEE5838E-13A0-4467-AFA3-9CBFA3A2E08B.jpeg
    Here’s a Toast, for All My Friends who worked so tirelessly.
    I lift my glass, and tip my hat! :)
    You’re all Amazing! :)
     
  12. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Page 19 of the Old Testament. The first block, as @McAdder noted, is on page 80 of the New Testament. And Luke is Lucas in German, which is why I could not find him in a search of the pages on google book. Learn something new every day.
     
  13. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    The second block is the story of Hagar, Abraham's concubine, who was expelled by Abraham's wife, Sarah. Hagar bore Abraham a son, Ishmael.
     
  14. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    I must say, this whole thread is a great example of how the sausage is made. :)
     
  15. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    at least it's not a sausage fest !! :happy:
     
  16. sassafras

    sassafras Well-Known Member

    Job well done!
     
    Christmasjoy and i need help like this.
  17. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    I honestly hate to be a party pooper, but I still think they are not the same plate.

    Even allowing for how crummy the photos are, look at the differences in the draperies:

    OP's woodblock:
    zzb.jpg

    The 1853 printing:
    zzc.jpg

    OP's woodblock:
    zzd.jpg

    The 1853 printing:
    zze.jpg

    And you can't say the block was reworked for later editions because it exists in its current state, and if detail was worn down and removed for later editions, you would see that in the block.

    I don't know what to say. They are clearly identical compositions, but they don't look to me to be the same plates.

    The book went through a lot of printings, so maybe OP's engraving is in some other printing. Maybe at some point, one set of blocks was replaced by another set.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  18. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Given that the blocks seem to be numbered with the page location in this book, and the obvious similarities, I expect an attribution to this book is possible, but not to this printing.
     
  19. McAdder

    McAdder Well-Known Member

    I don't know, the thread opener said he has prints maybe he can show them. It can be difficult to see in the block what really shows on the paper.

    As I already said this is a stereotype printing, the image could have been altered when the models for the printing plates were made. But that also means there is usually no difference between the printings except the title page.

    Or there really is a different (french) pictoral bible with close copies. I am confident it would be of the same time (1830-1850) I didn't think it was possible to find this bible because there are so many, yet this Forum found it, maybe someone finds another version. If we could find anything on the artist, this would be easier, but I haven't found anything, I fear this is just another pictoral bible without anything to attract attention of art historians, then few care about little differences.
     
  20. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    From Encyclopedia Britannica:
    Stereotype, type of printing plate developed in the late 18th century and widely used in letterpress, newspaper, and other high-speed press runs. Stereotypes are made by locking the type columns, illustration plates, and advertising plates of a complete newspaper page in a form and molding a matrix, or mat, of papier-mâché or similar material to it; the dried mat is used as a mold to cast the stereotype from hot metal. A stereotype plate is much stronger and more durable under the press run than would be the composed page of type.

    https://www.britannica.com/technology/stereotype-printing
     
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