Please id&date these 2 Ivory Netsuke figurines

Yes and I was going to suggest that you wash them and repost pictures.

The reason everyone is saying resin, is the bottom. See the lines? This is not what ivory looks like.


Scroll down to Fig 14. I think you will understand everyone's reaction a little better.
https://www.realorrepro.com/article/Ivory-genuine-fake--confusing

 

many thanks for the info you provided, they are really interesting .

 

Gianluca, I am sorry you feel offended by the comments, but everyone is trying to help you. And they are right.
The photo cluttered showed of the scratchy lines on the base of one of your figurines shows that they are resin. Those scratchy lines are seen a lot on netsuke-like objects produced in the 1970s and 80s from a resin called ivorine. Ivorine is simply a fancy word for ivory-coloured resin.

Ivory never looks like that and a netsuke base never looks like that.
Here is the base of a relatively modest antique netsuke. Please disregard the yellow patches, residue of a sticker that I haven't been able to remove without harming the ivory.


You can see important netsuke and ivory characteristics:

1) The bottom is not flat, but carved, with the feet of the figurine distinctly shaped. Netsuke have to look good from all sides because they are toggles, like buttons.
You have to be able to pass a cord through the holes, from one hole to another.
Many netsuke are signed, like this one, but not all.

2) The all-important sign for ivory, the Schreger lines, which are a natural growth pattern of ivory. At some parts of the carving you see cross-hatching, like on one of his shoe soles, a way to tell ivory from other materials.
Schreger lines never look like scratches, like the lines on your figurines do, but form a beautiful delicate pattern of lighter and darker lines.

Another netsuke detail, with delicately shaded, cross-hatched Schreger lines:


Your figurines do have some value as nice replicas. Please give them a wash though, they will look much nicer.

By the way, I have over 40 years of experience with netsuke.

 

Thanks for your reply and explanation I know that everyone is helping me but I just got a bit disappointed by the writing style. You're all great persons and always thanks so much to allow me learning everyrime more

 

One hole...the other looks blocked......
Bubbles in resin become notches when the resin is sanded..
The symbolism..an old man and his wife....nothing more.
The age...impossible to tell.....but not old.
You may have a fine jeweler....for jewelry.....but here , he is in error.

 

Sorry to pile on to what others are saying about your jeweler, and someone correct if I'm wrong, but the hot needle test would only ruin them if they were indeed resin. The hot needle will not melt them if they are ivory.

It seems like what he is saying is contradictory. I suppose a hot needle might make a dark mark on ivory, but it would not melt it.

 

I can never remember the name of the ones that don't have holes - it eludes me everytime I need to remember it. Is it okimono?

 

That sounds right, Tie.

 

Yes it is. I always think 'oh, kimono'.

 

Dear friends
I have found that many auctions on catawiki (write Ivory Netsuke) sell between 100 and 800 euros each, ok they are in ivory, there is also the estimate of the expert.
But thanks to your explanations, and after learning that the background must have a certain pattern and "the grain" I noticed that the relative photos of each auction, does not show the bottom of the object ..... a coincidence? I have some doubts, but ... why do more than 30 photos of multiple angles, but there is not even a picture of the bottom? I'm not talking about an auction, I'm talking about dozens of auctions ..... is it possible for catawiki experts to approve these lots, including estimates and quotations, without even having viewed a photo of the bottom ?
What do you think ? Thank you.

 

the bottom is always very important to show....but yes....many auctions do not.
They should....to give the buyer full information !!

 

I looked a number of the auctions on catawiki... a number of the certificates state the pieces info was seller supplied. If the pieces were just judged from photos,they could be anything even actual ivory and modern reproductions.

As far as schreger lines being visible,depending on the orientation of the rough piece they may be hard to see or not visible at all. Not all netsuke were signed and some modern pieces have been signed with 100 year old signatures. see link for more information from those who know... forums and FAQ https://www.netsuke.org/

 

When it comes to netsuke, no bottom picture = no sale!