Please id&date these 2 Ivory Netsuke figurines

Hi everyone,
today I would like to bring to your attention these two .... Netsuke ? I think this is their name ?
It really seems Ivory but i cannot test them .
If possible I would like to know something more about these elements,
for example, who they represent, what they symbolize, and about the relative age.
I didnt clean them, because i dont know it their worth could decrease cleaning them, i wait for your tips
Thank you all for your valued opinions.

 

The one with the beard appears to have air bubbles on the base and lower end.

 

Agree they look like resin, not ivory.

 

if I have well understood what you mean to say, they are not bubbles, but small circular notches

 

They are not resin, I brought them to a jeweler and told me that it is ivory, but that it would be better not to test the hot needle in order not to ruin them and he also told me that they have already been tested, because there they are already traces of hot engravings.
That's why I told you that it seems ivory to me and that I can not test them, just because a jeweler told me.
About bubbles, they are not bubbles, but small circular notches
I have proposed them to know what they represent and their symbolism. Thank you

 

The one standing up does appear to have the 2 holes on the back for the cord from which a netsuke is hung. The other has no holes at all, so it cannot be called a netsuke. There is another name for those (which I can't recall at the moment.)

I agree, neither one is made of ivory.

 

the jeweler told me that this is 100% ivory

 

I think you need a new jeweler.

 

Seconded. Those look an awful lot like resin and very little like ivory. Just as well - trading in ivory is illegal in a lot of places these days.

 

40 years of experience, i dont think he's a stupid.
By the way, i post these 2 figurines to understand who they represent, what they symbolize, and about the relative age, thanks.

 

I also agree these do not look like ivory based on the pictures we have. Frankly, I think that is for the best, since these would be hard to sell anyway. I was offered a few dozen real-ivory netsuke, many of them erotic, for a very low amount of money. But I didn't buy them, because they looked artificially-aged to me and came with no provenance. I have tried hard not to collect ivory in my travels; a couple times I have picked up a piece that sold for a couple dollars or would have gone in the trash, but I'm not really very comfortable about that either. I would feel kind of dirty trying to sell them, so not really sure what to do with them.

 

@evelyb30
By my knowledge ivory items made before 1947 follow the rule of EU and they are available for the selling

 

thanks for your answer, it could be nice to understand who they represent, what they symbolize, and about the relative age, thanks.

 

I agree that they appear to be resin and artificially aged. A quick comparison with a genuinely antique netsuke will clearly show important differences.

Debora

 

Without a dated receipt or an identifiable signature on the bottom of the piece ,it's impossible to date.

 

Probably 2 of the Japanese immortals - here's a set of ivory ones from an auction:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7310201_35-japanese-ivory-figurines-of-the-seven-immortals-on

I'm not so good at figuring out which is which, this might help ID yours:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Lucky_Gods

As to age - as i believe they are resin(despite your experienced jeweller's opinion - all due respect to him/her) - so they could have been made any time in the last 60 years or so and still look like they do.

 

thanks for your answer, it could be nice to understand who my figurines represent, what they symbolize, and about the relative age, thanks.

 

many thanks for your complete and kind reply, i have setted the Best Answer

 

did u consider that my figurines are uncleaned and the one on that photo is a cleaned element ? Thanks

 

Thank you all for your opinions.
But what I do not understand is that all of you have become fossilized on the fact that you see bubbles and you have associated the resin, when instead you probably did not realize that those are not bubbles, but some small circular notches.
Therefore, if your certainty comes from alleged bubbles, then you are wrong.
On the other hand, if you put other elements in your strength, which indicate that this is not ivory, I respect your opinions and thank you.
But I do not appreciate being told "I think you need a new jeweler" because we are talking about an old man who has over 40 years of experience, and he too naturally can make mistakes, there are no problems, if it is resin, or if it is ivory, this point does not interest me much. I am more interested in the kindness and respect of your answers, as well as the kind and complete response that has provided @aaroncab.
All I wanted to know was to know their meaning and their symbolism.
Thank you all for your time.