Old Knife Sheath

Hi, I am hoping someone can help me with this? I purchased it an auction in the UK along with a group of knives which aren't associated with sheath. I cannot find a makers name but it looks very old and unusual. I was wondering if it was 19th century and from the US, perhaps Native American?

It is leather. Around 13 inches long when fully extended. The stitching looks irregular. Apart from the outer flap there are 3 others. the colouration is as you would expect of old decorated leather. the outer is darker. the inner ones are far lighter as they have not been exposed to the elements so much. the thread at the end is leather as is the button like thing at the other end.

I have enclosed some photo's.

If anyone can help that would be great or, as it is quite a specialised field, if someone can let me know of a site/person that can help that would be very kind.

Many thanks John.

 

I like the details, John, but the photos are blurry and it is difficult to make out what the entire piece looks like. Could you post better pictures please?
Try photographing it against a plain white background, that often helps.

Does it still have a knife? In that case we'd love to see that as well.

 

An image of the WHOLE sheath is needed for us to try to help you better!! Thanks!!

 

As has been mentioned, better pictures and pictures of the whole scabbard would greatly help. That said, from what I can see, I would be perhaps inclined to think possibly Spanish or North African? But that is just a guess at the moment.

 

That was my first impression, but I have probably been looking too much at Tuareg leather items lately.
Photo 5 looks a bit Dayak (Indonesia), so we definitely need good photos of the entire sheath, or I could become cross-culturally confused.

 

not NA.....

 

The pictures are not much better, but it appears that it is for a 'pocket' knife? Sorry, I have no credible ideas.

 

@Johnno42000 , if we could see with more light and better focus someone here might be able to even tell you the type of leather it is made of ..... I am getting a sense of lizard skin or something thin , but I could be very much incorrect . @Any Jewelry had the same train of thought I was thinking , but again, I was thinking Philippines though I did not recognize the pattern as any specific tribe ( and there are oh so many !) .

 

Hi, I'm going to try taking them in daylight as, for once, the sun is shining in South Wales

 

I am still thinking Spanish or perhaps Moroccan.

 

Thanks. Any idea of the age? It certainly looks old to my very untrained eye.

 

Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to say with North African stuff. If that is what it is!?
That said, folding knives were not that common in days of yore, so my guess, and it is an instinctive guess, is that it isn't actually that old.

 

The part where the blade would fit into is around 5.5 inches long. Would you have a folding blade that long? I know virtually nothing about blades, sorry for so many questions and thank you for your help..

 

I have been puzzling over this item. Ideally, I would like to see an in-focus series of photos that show the front of the case closed, the full case with the top flap opened, then with the second flap opened, and then the third flap opened, so we can see the structure and decorations clearly and in context. The close up views are not really helpful in understanding the piece, although good views of the decorated flaps would be helpful if well lit and in focus enough to see the designs.

That said, I agree that the leatherwork looks North African. The flap decorated with green and red dyes and circles definitely fits a North African style. But another flap appears to have a scroll design that I would not associate with North African work. The one photo that shows that decoration, though, is too blurry to be sure.

It certainly looks like it was designed to be looped over a belt. We have been assuming that the case is for a knife. But there is no space for a knife handle and no way to easily withdraw one. This limits the options to a folding knife, which is unusual in an ethnographic context.

Perhaps our search might be more fruitful if we broaden our thinking to include a use other than for a knife. Perhaps it is for a whetstone, for example, or for something completely different.

 

There are many folding knives with blades longer than 5 inches,example.... https://cuchilleriaalbacete.com/co-en-navaja-bandolera-1.html

 

Quite. This one is 23.5" long!

A Spanish navaja.

 

Not for a knife but a pipe.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tuareg+bag+pipe

 

Thank you for all your help. I'm not sure I can do much more with the photo's. I may try asking down Cardiff Museum as the

That seems an almost complete match. Well done and thank you so much

 

Oh, yer good Sir..............very good !!!!