Featured Old jewellery box,age and maker?

Hello
I am new here would anyone have any info about this box,please.

It is very ,very heavy.

Columba.

 

I am very interested in your casket and its origins too. I hope the members can help you.

 

Nice condition for what is probably a spelter/pot metal base item. Usually see these without much finish left. Late 19th century. Bottom is typical of Japanese manufacture later in the 20th century. I don't know if others did it as well.

 

Hello Verybrad
Many thanks for your thoughts,it surprises me that you mention Japanese .I have been told by others that it may be German or French.
And that it is bronze. and that the painted sections may be similar to the Bergman cold painted bronze work.
again many thanks.

 

It's a very attractive box. I would think late 19th or early 20th C, but to put a country of origin... it could be from any of those named, and others. Is there any point where the finish is chipped to reveal the metal beneath? That patterning on the bottom is called meander.

 

I'd think late 19th - early 20th century as well, bronze or brass, and would guess French manufacture - the tufted silk interior, the lock and key, the hinge, etc., all point to quality construction. If you haven't noticed, the same dotted meander pattern as on the base is present in some of the panels on the lid - and personally, might question if the cold-painting is original...

~Cheryl

 

The color looks like it could be original to me. It certainly gives a mixed metal impression. Perhaps the intended effect is metal appliques over leather.

 

Many thanks for all your replies.
the metal under the paint is copper colour,in my opinion the paint looks original,as moreotherstuff suggested to look like leather.
what is known about the meander pattern ?what were the main countries that used it,this may be a clue .
I took it to a french antique dealer today,and in his opinion ,he said it was not french,he said it did not have a double throw lock(not sure if all french locks are double throw) He felt maybe German,or northern Italy.

The base I think is called engine turning,not sure how the patterns are done under the paint,it looks like may be by hand with fine shaped punches,I found one very small section that was missed,and is plain.

Also not sure if the griffin(or lion)heads on the front and back maybe another clue.
Columba

 

interesting....I thought this was engine turning...

 

There is no engine-turning on this piece (nothing even resembles engine-turning), nor was any decoration done by hand, it is cast, and the metal would typically be bronze - it is Rococo-inspired in style. Not sure what a double throw lock is, but have seen locks like yours on boxes literally marked 'Made in France', and see no reason it couldn't be German or Italian, but French would be my personal guess...

~Cheryl

 

This box, with its lining gone and the lock damaged, shows it's cast (the base on yours is integral to the design, and cast rather than applied as on this one):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254826870112




This one appears to have a lock similar to yours, described as being marked 'MADE IN FRANCE':

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/100910334_louis-xv-style-gilt-bronze-jewelry-trinket-box





This piece, cast by the Léopold Oudry foundry in Paris, design by French artist Théophile Hingre (would love to own this piece) - gilt and silverplated bronze, has texture on the background, and a very similar interior, but no lock:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/62380236_leopold-oudry-jewelry-casket







An Oudry box that appears to have a similar lock:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/french-19th-century-l-oudry-dre-edite-jewelry




~Cheryl

 

It is where the first rotation of the key moves the bolt into the latch pocket, and a second rotation moves it further through, sometimes into a strike plate. It is an extra security feature for a door lock, but doesn't make much difference on a little brass box lock of course. I see them on boxes from various countries, I don't think it's specifically French.

 

Hello Cheryl
Thanks for your comments and images, I agree with you that it looks French.
I am not the expert here .If a French antiques dealer of many years selling high end things for many years on one of the best streets for selling antiques(who is also French himself) is saying it is not French ,I have to accept his opinion (he may also be wrong).

I think you will find the pattern on the base is called engine turning it came in all different patterns ,the stippling or dashes on the brown areas may have been done before or after casting (very fine if done before casting) my feeling done after casting before painting. Same as chasing on gold sections ,done in my opinion after casting before gilding (all may have been cast only?)

The detail is so fine ,if all cast must have been done in the lost wax process to get the detail. Original design done in wax.

Columba.

 

Hello members
I have just seen this interesting box online square hole in lock,like my box ,also brown colored enamel ,similar,getting closer to possible maker.
.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20942/lot/1400/

 

Respectfully, I think you will find it is not "called engine turning" - good luck with your research...


~Cheryl

 

Hello Cheryl

Thanks for you comments,What would you call the pattern on the base ?
and how is it done,with what tools?
Columba.

 

yes...well put !

 

What do you mean by well put,when Cheryl is not correct.
The pattern was done by a Rose engine turning lathe.

Columba

 

Hello Members
I would like to apologise to Cheryl ,for my last comment ,she is correct about there being no engine turning on my box.

I had not seen the image on the base before,and as it looked very complicated I had assumed it was machine done.


To my surprised I have been told by Mr Peter Johnson, President of The Society of Ornamental Turners (did not know it existed till yesterday)


That the work is done by hand with a special punch (different punches of other shapes used on the box for leather texture)He has give this design the name "Snail Trails" (great name)

As I said to Peter,even though engine turning is far superior in quality,
I am very happy to have this very complicate hand done design on the base.
must have taken a long time to do. (why do it at all on the base)
It has been a great learning exercise ,I do feel now if it is not by L .Oudry
It is in his style.

Columba

 

Here's what I mean. !!

We established there's no engine turning here......so I was commenting on Dragons...calm, direct, professional, & ladylike statement......" good luck with your research "......

which I interpret ....to infer ......'your research'......as meaning Cheryl has gone out of her way to help and inform you here despite continued protests.....and the time has come for her to move on & leave you to your own devices.... as will I !