Stemmed Glasses w/gold roses applied - Anything Special?

I'm in a "curious phase." I have 4 of these stemmed glasses (not sure what to call them because they seem too large to be sherbets although they are a similar shape.) They came from my late domestic partner's household goods which I inherited 12 years ago. When I was getting ready to move and sell the house, I decided to keep them because they just looked "nice." Other than the fact that he already had them in the early 90's, I have no idea where they came from. He certainly would not have bought them himself.

Statistics - just a hair under 4.5 inches tall, 4 inches diameter at the top and hold 8 ounces.

The "curious" thing is that the gold that makes up the design appears to have been cut (as in from a sheet of gold paper?) to fit into the slight indentations in the glass on the outside of the bowl and the underside of the foot. The gold at the top and bottom looks painted on. From the outside the gold is true to color and very shiny. From the inside, it looks matte and sort of green-grey, although in the picture they look just like the outside.

I see no mold lines anywhere. Center bottom has a few small off-center straw marks that I can only feel, not really show with the camera and a little pointy bump dead-center.

Where the stem meets the bowl, there is a perfectly formed half-sphere that sticks up into the bowl.

That's probably more than you wanted to know, but since I am pretty clueless about this kind of thing I figured "more" might be better than "less." I have no illusions about these, so tell it like it is.

 

I like that you wrote a long description - it helps me, anyway. When the replies from knowledgeable people come in, the whole thread will be instructive to somebody like me who knows little about this.

Do you know what the function of this type of glass would be? I was looking at the dimensions and trying to figure it out.

 

The treatment of gold filled engravings... goes back quite a ways, I've heard it attributed to St. Louis (San Louie) mid 19th century. IMHO it's the inspiration for 20th century Goofus glass.

Your sample looks like a sherbet to me. No mold marks on the bowl indicates blown glass, the stem may have been pressed and applied and the foot hand tooled.

 

Thank you, Cherryhill!

Is St. Louis (San Louie) just the city or a company name? American or foreign?

Thanks for the feedback, Fig. I have a tendency to add more details than the listener really wants to hear when telling a story in person, so I do a lot of editing in posts to prevent losing the reader's attention.

Reading here and on PGP has at least given me an appreciation for the kinds of details that an experienced glassie wants to consider when giving an ID or avenues for further searching.

 

In glass St Louis is a French company well known for its fine glass and gold decoration. Try googling it.

 

Thanks, George.

 

Wow. Found a lot of Saint Louis crystal to look at and it is GORGEOUS!

Unfortunately, I have serious doubts that my "sherbets" (or possibly champagnes) are by them. Their decorations look much more finely done and I couldn't find a single stem example like these. Their stems of this general shape are much more detailed (cutting, paneling, beading, for instance.)

I went back to look at mine again in that process and see that I did not mention that the pieces of "gold whatever" that make up the blossoms are raised just a smidge and some overlap (which can be seen from the inside) giving the whole thing a slight three-dimensional look. A few of tiny leaf pieces do not fit exactly into the indentations, too.

 

And.... Last night I found this query on the PGP and think that the stem shape is exactly the same as mine (or very close.) Gabla suggested that the OP look into Duncan & Miller first, but that it was used by many other companies.

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Potter...D-on-Wine-Glass-Please/m-p/23526228#U23526228

Is it even worth looking into further?

 

I am not sure the maker of the glass is as important as who did the decorating. You may want to search gold filled sherbet and sherbert or dessert.

 

That's what I was wondering. Thanks.

 

What George said, I don't think you can ID this ware based upon stem shape. This is too common, goes back to 1800 or so, and made by at least several companies.

 

That's what I gathered.

I searched "gold filled + rose" on replacements and got lots of roses and lots of gold trim and gold encrusted but nothing even close.

I went to chatabout to see what was available regarding decorating companies, but the search for gold-filled only gave me 2 results that weren't useful either. Maybe it's because I haven't used that site before and don't know it's "tricks?"

The closest I could get to a similar shape for the rose came from looking at thousands of results from ebay (the vast majority of which had no gold on them anywhere.) The cut rose on Cambridge "Radiant Rose" is very similar, although the rest of it isn't. Replacements dates that at 1958. There was another similar rose shape on a Fostoria glass, but the seller didn't have a pattern name or date for it.

I'm kind of out of source ideas. Can you suggest any sites that might be helpful?

 

Because that cutting is rather generic I suspect these are made to order for either a Jeweler or a Dept Store like Marshall Fields. You might check for a local decorating operation 50-80 years ago.

 

Okay - so because these were "found" in the Boston area, the assumption might be that it was decorated for a local store. Hm.

While I was gone, I stumbled across an article about Lotus/Glastonbury that talked about Lotus supplying to, among others, Jordan-Marsh - a Boston institution since bought up and converted to a Macy's. And their various "rose" designs have a very similar way of making the rose blossom and in some cases similar leaves.

I really appreciate the help and education I've received from you and Cherryhill, but I think I've reached my limit on "degree of difficulty." At least for the time being.

 

These remind me of Fostoria's Cut Rose line, although that's not what this is. I've seen this cutting before, but it's seldom that the seller knows who did it. Isn't this style of stem what they called an oyster cocktail, but we would probably use to make a Manhattan or something in it. They are really pretty, and I would keep them (but then, I try to keep everything, at least for a little while). But if you want to sell them, I think listing with KWs like "Cut Rose, Gold, Cocktail" they should sell easily.

 

Thanks for your thoughts, Pam. There sure are pretty.

I'm not planning on selling them. Waiting for the estate sale.