Old master painting?

Hello everyone, I hope some of you may be able to assist me. I am considering buying an old master (I believe) painting and was just trying to get your views in regards to age, possible origins or a contender for who may have painted it. It looks to be very old, possibly 18th century, or before. The painting is not signed that I can see. (I am in the UK where the painting is)

The detail is superb for age, although it has a few paint losses and a couple of tiny holes. It is approx 30" wide framed.

Your views would be greatly welcomed.

Finally, the big question would be, what would it possibly be worth? I wouldn't wish to pay over the odds for it.

Thanks in advance for any help given.

Best wishes,
PF

 

The back looks old.... The front looks more like a 19th century genre painting to me, but I'm no expert.

 

Looks like a 19th century genre painting to me too. His clothing appears to be Puritan era but she has a decidedly Victorian look.

Debora

 

old yes, master not so much

 

I'm sure there's supposed to be a story here, but I don't get it. She (?) is looking at him intently but he's looking off canvas at nothing we can see. He's gesturing but at what? I'm with evelyb and Debora - not old enough or good enough to be a true "Old Master."

 

looks like he dropped his hat,
and isn't she.....another he !!

 

...Not old enough or good enough to be a true "Old Master."

I'm no expert, but that's what I was thinking, too.

 

The amanuensis could certainly be a young man. Here's a portrait of Oliver Cromwell's son with very much the same look.

Debora

 

I don't find it difficult to imagine that that's meant to be Cromwell and his son.

(he usually looks leaner)

It looks to me like there's a significant tear in the lower right corner. Are you prepared to live with that? Looks like it would be expensive to have repaired, unless you are up it yourself.

 

Actually, it's Oliver Cromwell dictating to John Milton. And Victorian.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/resear...1&searchText=oliver+cromwell+protector&page=1

Debora

 

Well done, Debora and Moreother!

 

So this is a copy? (For some reason I couldn't get that link to connect.)

 

The British Museum has a print in its collection. This appears -- like the one above -- to be a copy in oil.

http://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/62...-milton-1a655-by-frederick-newenham-18071859/

Debora

 

So Percy, who's selling you this as an old master.......
I think u should re-evaluate their street creds !!

GOOD thing u came HERE first !

 

Fantastic stuff, Debora and Moreother.

 

Hi Percy and welcome. You've just seen another amazing investigation from members of this Forum. Their knowledge and "sleuthing" still surprise and excite me. I just love this site. Well done everyone! I would have picked the "her" as a "him" too, but making the Cromwell connection was brilliant.
Percy, you don't reveal the reason you wanted to buy it: resale, your own collection, it's a bargain, you just love it etc. Now you know it's not a "master", but a copy of an original doesn't mean its not a suitable piece to have in your collection. It's clearly old, and probably late Victorian too based on comments above.
All the best with your decision and enjoy this Forum.

 

The full title of the original painting (by Frederick Newenham) apparently is:
Protector Dictating the Letter to the Duke of Savoy to Stop the Persecution of the Protestants of Piedmont, 1655

Many people shorten and alter it for reasons of brevity and clarity. And who can blame them?

There is reference to the painting in an exhibition review in the Illustrated London News from February 9, 1850, and the writing suggests the exhibition was then current.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=tQ... february 9 oliver cromwell Dictating&f=false