Makers Mark on Onyx Ring

Hi there,

Ring is marked "417-(blank diamond shape)"

Haven't been able to find any info on this diamond mark, just looking for more info after my recent purchase.

417 has me thinking European origin.

Just curious if anyone is familiar with the simple diamond mark next to it.

Pics are fairly clear but the "diamond" is a square turned 45* to make a diamond, not a 5 sided gem shaped diamond. There are no other markings inside the diamond or anywhere on the ring.

 

417 is the mark for 10K gold,not sure which countries use the 417 mark.

 

From what I understand most European countries require 3 digit ### markings instead of the ##K system in the US.

Really I want to know what the diamond shaped marking indicates.

 

Try google for European maker's marks,there's probably at least 70,000 in the last 50 years.

 

It's a rhombus not a diamond. That may help with the search.

 

In most European countries 10k gold has too little gold content to be legal, they usually start with 14k, 585.
The only European countries that I know of who accept 10k (and under) are Britain, Germany, and Italy.
Britain requires full marks above a certain weight, which this is, so we can strike that off the list.
Germany and Italy can be quite sloppy with marks, but Italy uses a cartouche around the fineness number (as do nearly all European countries).
That leaves Germany, if the provenance is European.
But there are other possibilities, it could be an older (not antique) Australian or New Zealand mark, for instance.

 

Gotcha, guess I'll start digging through what I can find on those countries. Someone on Facebook also suggested India as origin, do you think that could be plausible?

Another person suggested that it might just be an import mark as well?

The extent of my knowledge on hallmarks ends with the gold purity markings, country of origin is well beyond me. Any ideas or point in the right direction is a huge help, just trying to narrow down the search from random charts that I've been finding on Google...

Thanks, the top lines are a tad wider than the bottom too. Do you think that would have been intended or more likely from an angled impression?

 

"After 1838, a maker’s mark in a lozenge (diamond shape with four equal sides) was also required on French gold, silver and platinum. According to Tardy, the lozenge shape itself was introduced in 1797, but it is not clear if there were any regulations about its use at that time."


http://www.modernsilver.com/basichallmarks.htm

Don't think this ring is anywhere near this old but this is the only other similar marking I have found so far, apparently the French call it a 'lozenge'.

"In France, the UK, Austria, Portugal and Ireland, 9 carat is the lowest caratage permitted to be called gold. In Denmark and Greece, 8 carat is the legal minimum standard."

https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold-jewellery

Any thoughts on this being of French origin?

 

Generic cast onyx signet ring,probably made after 1950.The wax model was thinned down before casting so it was possibly at the lower price ring at the time it was made.

 

I would agree, it’s not very old or unique and the quality is average. Any idea on value for a piece like this?

Also still just want to know what the marking next to 417 means, another on Facebook tried to say it indicates plumb gold but I can’t find anything to cross reference his claim.

Really appreciate all the info so far!

 

Can anyone confirm or deny this claim on the diamond mark indicating plumb gold on the PPT assay?

I want to believe this guy but I can find anything to reference.

 

I don't think India accepts 10k, most South and Southeast Asian countries don't.

 

The French lozenge always has the maker's initials in it, so this lozenge isn't French. Yes, lozenge is the correct word.
I can't find any mention of 10k for France in my Tardy on gold and have never come across French 10k gold. It would have been fully marked anyway, not the fineness number, but proper assay and guarantee marks.
Maybe @kyratango can tell us whether France uses 10k at all, mistakes can creep in, even on reputable sites. If they do, I'll give them a stern talking to.

 

Good to know.

Another from Facebook suggested that the lozenge/diamond mark indicates plumb gold on PPT assay marks, such as the 'KP' marks used in the USA to indicate plumb.

He said it has been around since at least the 1920's and believed it was started in Israel. What are your thoughts on Israeli origin?

No signs of the same mark but there are some similar styles here, based in Jerusalem:
https://www.rubylane.com/shop/thegryphonsnest/ilist/?q=onyx

 

Your mark is a rhombus (a parallelogram with four equal sides), and to my eye appears to be a square (having four 90 degree angles) turned on point, it is not a lozenge, which is a rhombus with two acute and two obtuse angles, the acute usually 45 degrees - it is probably a manufacturer's mark, may or may not have originally had something in the center, but truly doubt if the maker is of any importance on this ring. Extremely unlikely to be American, and it's not French, but as to it's origin, several suggestions have already been made, personally have only run across a '417' on Italian gold chains, but am sure they're found elsewhere - you could just keep searching for others with the same mark and a firm attribution, but it hardly seems worth the effort.

Regarding the 'diamond' plumb gold mark, can't say I've ever heard of it, no idea of other countries, but don't believe the plumb gold designation was used here before the late 1970s-early '80s - as for being from Israel, I've seen 10K gold from there, and see no reason an Israeli manufacturer couldn't use a numeric fineness, but there's nothing that particularly says 'Israel' about this piece (and while there were certainly Jewish gold/silversmiths in Palestine in the '20s, but there was no State of Israel until 1948).

'417' mark on an Italian chain:


~Cheryl

 

Thanks Cheryl, I know that figuring this out won't do anything for the value, I just want to know for the sake of knowing.

Pretty crazy that no one has been able to recognize what this simple mark means, figured being such a simple marking that it would be more common than it has turned out to be LOL