Featured Two vases, probably central European

I'd be grateful for any pointers on either or both of these. I don't know much more than that they lived in southern Germany for -- probably -- at least the last 25 years.

This goblet form vase is around 15 cm high and 9 cm in diameter;




This blueish vase with the wider body is approx. 12 cm high and 10 cm across:





Thanks for looking!

 

I suspect the first is Belgian or French.

 

Hi,
Your first one is just drop dead gorgeous!!! I would really like to give it house room.
greg

 

The first one has a Loetz-y feel, but just a guess

 

I agree, the first one is yummy!

 

Thank you all. What should be my next steps to find out more?

Following up on blooey's tip, I can find a couple of Loetz items that seem very similar and have similar dimensions. Phenomenon Genre, pattern 8069.

One is here: http://www.antik-glass.com/html/lotz.html
(item 3132, almost half way down the page)


And one is coming up for auction here: https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/5144782/



Our item does not have any discernible markings. Possibly "2. Wahl" / B-Grade?

Holding it at different angles to study it makes me appreciate it more, but not in a way that would make us want to keep it.

 

The glass looks a bit thick for Loetz to my eye.

 

You could well be right. With the vase in front of me it seems similar to the photos I've found of Loetz pieces, and I'd say the photos above reflect that, but it's all a bit of a guessing game for me.

If it isn't Loetz then we now know what it's trying to be!

Does anyone have any thoughts at all on the second vase?

 

Loetz is rarely marked but lots of fakes are

 

do you use Facebook? Post both of them to this group, they should be able to help you

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ArtGlassCollectorsGroup

 

I don't, but many thanks for the tip. Perhaps FB has to happen (I've been resisting up to now).

 

Yesterday I found more support for that:

https://www.loetz.com/decors-a-z/phaenomen-genres/phaenomen-genres-enter-here/pg-191

I've also spent time looking at various resources on Bohemian glass and strongly suspect that the second vase is also Loetz (a variant of Melusin):

https://www.loetz.com/decors-a-z/melusin
https://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/loetz1/1898-1914/melusin/
http://kralik-glass.com/loetzmelusinarray.html

How would the 'twisted' effect be described?

 

Following up once more:

A month ago I'd never heard of Loetz. Today I was very happy to receive confirmation from an acknowledged expert that these are both "definitely" Loetz vases.

So thanks again @blooey.

 

My pleasure.

 

They are beautiful, and I'm glad you have an identification.

 

Result!

 

Half a result. I mentioned above that these aren't keepers for us, so we'll be offering them for sale. I'll let the board know in due course whether they keep us in wine for a year or just an evening.

Finding out has been the important half, though, and great fun. It's nice to know what these are, even if we'll never know how and when my in-laws acquired them, and fascinating to peek into the world of art glass manufacture 120 years ago.

(A little scary, too, to see how some people don't just peek into these worlds but delve ever deeper, often creating wonderful reference resources while doing so.)

 

Since I posted these I've had a nagging feeling that we had a third Jugendstil vase tucked away somewhere. This past weekend it came to light, hiding in one of our "when we have time, find out what this stuff is" cupboards:



Also Loetz, around 26 cm tall.

It was quite dirty inside and has obviously seen frequent use. You can see some scuffing around the vase at its widest point -- presumably where it was slid into storage spaces between other vessels. Sad in a way but I'd say overall it's had a good life so far.

 

What would those Vases be worth as Loetz pieces.

 

The first two are going to auction in September so we'll find out then.

As always, it will come down to whether or not more than one person is interested in our pieces. (We're hoping people will actually be able to attend auctions by then.)

The second vase seems to be a rather unusual combination of form and decor, with a gold relief pattern that we've not yet seen elsewhere, but many collectors would get more excited about the same vase in ruby red or striking blue.

There's some gorgoeus blue Melusin here, including one with the same form as ours: https://www.loetz.com/decors-a-z/melusin.