Featured Help on an antique silver tray

Discussion in 'Silver' started by Paul Mathrick, May 8, 2018.

  1. Paul Mathrick

    Paul Mathrick New Member

    pm1.jpg pm1.jpg pm1a.jpg pm1b.jpg pm1c.jpg pm1d.jpg pm1ee.jpg pm1ff.jpg Would love some help on this silver box or tray, it is missing the lid, but I was thinking it was some sort of ecclesiastical relic? There are no marks, but I took it to a precious metal merchant, he told me the sides were in excess of 93% silver, the base was only 80%. My grandfather said it was hundreds of years old, and that it came from southern Germany- but his stories changed toward the end of his life. He could never remember what happened to the lid. Any history or comparative examples would be much appreciated. It weighs about 1.5kg, measures 58cm x 30cm. And thank you for your time, much obliged for any information.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
  2. afantiques

    afantiques Well-Known Member

    Could you go back to your post, select 'edit' and then select full size for all images.
     
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  3. Paul Mathrick

    Paul Mathrick New Member

    Done. Thanks for the tip
     
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  4. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It is an intriguing box. The style is of the early Middle Ages, but it was made much later. My guess is 19th century, during the German 'Historismus', or Historic Revival.
    It could have had an ecclesiastical purpose, but it is not a reliquary. A reliquary has a different shape.
    Maybe for storing hosts or for the stole that is worn during mass?

    This is a Karolingian reliquary, 9th-10th century, this is roughly the period style your box was made to resemble. But this one is genuinely of the period:
    [​IMG]

    The Romanesque st Servatius reliquary, ca 1165:
    [​IMG]

    It is still carried in procession every seven years in a town not too far from me, along with other church treasures:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
  5. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    I'd call that an "ark" but what do I know. The images are supposed to be the Apostles, best guess. Bible box, maybe?
     
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  6. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    You could call it an ark in the sense of the Latin-derived arc, a box or chest. In this case the chest contains relics, so it is also a reliquary.
    Reliquaries of this size and in this style are typical of the Maasland cultural region of southeastern Netherlands, eastern Belgium, and the border region of Germany, notably Aachen. They were made during the Romanesque period, 11th-13th century.
    The colloquial name for this particular reliquary is "noodkist", which roughly translates to emergency or distress chest. It was always carried through the town (Maastricht) in times of extreme danger or hardship, in the belief that St Servatius would save the town.
     
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  7. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    Aachen makes sense for these; it was Charlemagne's capital, and there would have been a lot of capital concentrated in the area for a long time. The empire didn't hang together but the influence on design lived on.
     
  8. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    After Charlemagne the Carolingian kingdom split up quickly, mostly into ecclesiastical city states. The importance of Aachen waned, as there was no king in Aachen. Aachen was trying to find its bearings in the chaos after the death of Charlemagne, and was quickly surpassed by other towns.
    This was the period of the 'Good Towns', the Ecclesiastical States in the region. The Prince-Bishop of Liege, in presentday Belgium, was the Overlord, far more powerful than the bishop of Aachen.
    Maasland art is a direct descendant of Carolingian art. It is also known as Mosan art. The name indicates the focus on the Maas towns. The river Maas, or Meuse, runs through both Maastricht and Liege, but nearby Aachen is included in Maasland culture.
    The reliquary above was made in Maastricht, not in Aachen. Maastricht was an ally of Liege, but was independent and wealthy, and an artistic powerhouse. It was ruled by two lords, the duke of Brabant and yet another wealthy bishop. The combination of the two made for influences from a wider area, and led to many artists being drawn to Maastricht. The bishop commissioned the reliquary to be made locally for the relics of St Servatius.
     
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  9. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    I've run across some of this, Brabant rings all sorts of bells (not just church bells), but American schools barely teach our own history never mind anyone else's. I never really got as far as central Europe on my own except in bits and pieces.
     
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  10. Paul Mathrick

    Paul Mathrick New Member

    I thought replied, but it was lost to the aethers :)

    Thank you so much everybody, the history is fascinating and your depth of knowledge even more incredible. It really does look like a box that would fit a bible, spot on evelyb30. Any Jewelry, I am indebted, thank you so much for sharing your insight. My grandfather will be turning in his grave, bless, I miss him every day.

    I suspected something was awry, though I've never handled anything medieval. How does one discern authentic from revival; is it deduction? Are there tells? Or is it more visceral (with experience)? When I looked at the construction, it appears to be folded sheet metal, then there are tacks a contemporary welder would use on the base. The inconsistency of the silver was also strange, but then I did not know if it was a hodgepodge of elements from different periods in an attempt to repair a dilapidated artefact.

    I need wonder no more, thanks again debunking this family myth. I will say the process has lit the fire of curiosity within me. I've always loved coins and my mind would wander as I admired millennia-old Roman coins that were possibly used as entry to the Colosseum. The mind boggles.
     
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  11. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    upload_2018-5-10_20-4-44.jpeg

    That's our default position here............................:playful::playful::playful::playful::playful::playful:
     
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  12. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Brabant rings all sorts of bells with me, it is where I was born and where I returned to live.:happy: Brabant is now split by the Dutch-Belgian border, I live just north of the border in a province called North Brabant.
    Brabant has an old and interesting history, linked to Burgundy. Hollanders still often call us Burgundians, which also means people who enjoy the good things in life. They also call us stupid, backward and ignorant, one of the many reasons why there is generally not much love lost between Hollanders and us. For centuries Brabant was a colony of Holland, and they often still treat us as such.
    To get an idea of Brabant culture, the famous Belgian cities of Brussels and Antwerp are the major cities of Brabant.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
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  13. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    u should write a book !!!:happy::happy:
     
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  14. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I am.:)
    But on a totally different subject, spiritual and cultural background of Javanese and Madurese keris symbolism. It will take years before it is finished, though.
     
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  15. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    At least it'll keep you busy !! :playful::playful:
     
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  16. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Yes, roaming the streets at all hours wasn't doing me any good.:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:
     
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  17. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    I'm told they roll up the sidewalks and turn off the street lights at 10PM in Brabant. Nothing to do out there anyway. :p (They say the same about where I live, with good reason.)
     
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  18. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Not since I've been writing on my book.:hilarious:
    There is a song called "Brabantse nachten zijn lang", Brabant nights are long. I always thought that was because we party all night, but it could be long and boring, of course.;)
    On the other hand, the favourite song of Brabant was written when the singer got so depressed in St. Petersburg (Russia) because all the streets were dark and the bars were closed after his concert. "And then I thought of Brabant, where the lights still burned brightly". This is it with a local brass band and after about 40 seconds you can see another local pride, men in costume, turning flags of the local guilds that used to protect Brabant:
     
  19. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    Rats! "The uploader has not made this video available in your country". There were parts of the United States in the 19th century, maybe into the 20th for all I know, that had wooden side walks that literally did roll up. Looks like the Dutch/Flemish rolled up the video too.
     
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  20. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member



    This one worked. It's half in English, but not about Brabant. I couldn't resist a guy who calls himself Raccoon.:beaver::beaver::beaver:
     
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