Featured A Hongshan pig-dragon (zhulong) and a black stone (maybe dragon) pendant. REAL OR FAKE?

Hi Everyone! This will be my first post in the forum but I have been reading around for some time now.
I would like to post my own inquiries on 2 objects I borrowed from my girlfirend's father. He happens to be an avid collector of anything he finds at second hand antique markets and I spotted these 2 items and asked if I could borrow them to try out some product photography using a light box I had just bought.

Hongshan jade dragon? by Paron Saengrattanachai posted Oct 5, 2020 at 3:31 PM

Hongshan jade zhulong by Paron Saengrattanachai posted Oct 5, 2020 at 3:31 PM

The story behind these two is that he bought them from an acquaintance in Cambodia about 10 years ago and this acquaintance of his said they were very old and had been dug up from the ground. It's no surprise that he thought they were of Khmer origin.

I did a little research into each and quite easily found information on the zhulong and was rather surprised that it actually originated from China and at how old it might be. However, I wasn't able to find anything on the other piece or at least nothing that resembles it. I think it might be a dragon but if I rotate it it looks like a lizard with a big tail walking on its hind legs haha.
The zhulong is jade judging from the green around the head and it is translucent in parts when I shine a bright light on it. The black pendant is also translucent so maybe it's jade that may have been turned black through some chemical process?

What I would like someone to advise me on is if these pendants are real antiques, meaning if they were dug up from a burial mound or if they are more modern reproductions. I have gone through the forum and other website but I still cannot be sure. My initial conclusion is that they are modern reproductions but I wish I had some good news for my gf's father. And also what is that black pendant????? I would be so grateful for any pointers.

Thank you in advance for any morsel of information you can provide!

 

Hi Paron!

Welcome to Antiquers............

Unfortunately, I cannot help...........but others will be along.............

 

Welcome. The safer bet is that they are modern. There's such a huge industry in China & some of its neighbors in making fake antiquities, you really have to look at anything that is supposed to be an archeological find with skepticism. There is also the question of whether excavation finds were on the market legally or not.

@Any Jewelry is our resident serpenologist.

 

Welcome Paron.

You are right. I am sorry I don't have better news for your girlfriend's father, but they are both fakes. Maybe a small consolation, Hongshan pieces are rarely found in private collections. There are not many Hongshan jades, and nearly all are in museums.
I do think they are both jade. Nephrite jade can come in many colours.

Hongshan jades are very smooth, like most ancient stone artifacts. The pitting on the jades you posted is caused artificially, by acid. It suggests a kind of erosion which Hongshan pieces don't have.
I also see fake calcification, kind of rough looking. Natural calcification is part of the stone, and as smooth as the rest of the stone.
The holes on Hongshan jades are tapering and irregular, and they never have drill lines. The holes on the genuine ones are worn perfectly smooth from having been worn on thongs or cords.

Hongshan pieces are always very attractive, and the fakes are too. I hope he can enjoy them anyway.

 

This jade (later than Hongshan) shows natural calcification in the stone, it is as smooth as the rest of the stone:

 

Hi Paron, and WELCOME to ANTIQUERS!! I can't help, but very interesting looking pieces!!

 

Thank you so much for your feedback! That was just the confirmation I needed. I've read several articles about the calcification and the drill holes but there aren't many samples to look at so I couldn't be sure if what I understood from the articles I read was the correct understanding.

And you are right, I find these 2 pieces to be quite attractive in their own way. Jade is still jade after all and that is special enough to us who are of Chinese descent.

@judy.965 @bronwen.5833 @aquitaine.602
Thank you all for your warm welcome ^^

 

Jade is still jade after all

Not when it's Han Dynasty white jade !!!
Then you guys get all excited !!!!

 

Any way you could upload some that you have in your collection that are genuine? Would love to see real ones!

 

I never said I have any genuine Hongshan pieces in my collection. They are extremely rare, and most outside China have been smuggled out illegally. Not a practice I would endorse.