Chinese chess pieces made of bones

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by GAJDAS, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. GAJDAS

    GAJDAS Member

    Hello.
    I have chess shown in the pictures. I can not find too much about them on the internet. Can you help me identify them, how to check if they are original and what is their value? Thank you and best regards
    IMG_20180306_094850 3.jpg IMG_20180306_095024 3.jpg IMG_20180305_170241.jpg IMG_20180305_170241 3.jpg
     
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  2. judy

    judy Well-Known Member

    Welcome to Antiquers Gajdas!
     
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  3. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Welcome GAJDAS. They do not look like bone to me. We would be interested in seeing the bottom of one but see they are felt covered. If there is one that has lost the felt, could you show us? Do you know with certainty anything about the age of the set?
     
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  4. GAJDAS

    GAJDAS Member

    Sprawdziłem za pomocą metod znalezionych w Internecie w tej metodzie: "hot pin" i nic nie stało się z pionkami. Nie topią się, itp. Są jak nowe. Nie mam żadnych dokumentów do zestawu. Załączony ze zdjęciem z góry jednej z figur. Sprawdzę, jakie jest dno liczb. Czy powinien być znak? IMG_20180306_082318.jpg
     
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  5. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Appears to have Schreger lines so, yes, ivory.
     
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  6. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    According to IM Translator:

    I checked using the methods found on the Internet in this method: 'hot pin' and nothing happened to the pawns. They do not drown, etc. They are like new. I do not have any documents for the set. Attached with a picture from above one of the figures. I will check what the bottom of the numbers is. Should there be a sign?
     
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  7. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Not sure those are Schreger lines. Schreger lines are fairly even lines of a lighter and darker colour, with cross-hatching visible on a rounded surface. These seem to be textured cross-hatched lines on a flat surface.
    Gajdas, can you feel the lines? If so, they are not Schreger lines.
    These are Schreger lines, just colour differences, no texture:
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Huntingtreasure

    Huntingtreasure Well-Known Member

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  9. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Looking with more awake eyes, the lines in a crosshatch pattern look like they could be incised. Having my usual problem gauging depth, & therefore texture, from the photo.

    Does it have to be a rounded surface? Think it depends more on angle of cut to pattern of growth & whether the material was taken close to the outside or farther toward the core. This is the bottom of a piece shown at the link Huntingtreasure found:

    upload_2018-3-24_13-36-12.png
     
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  10. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Only a rounded surface shows cross-hatching. On a flat surface the lines are straight. I think the bottom of the piece could have the same textured surface as Gajdas' piece.
    The rounded surface can also be a sleeve of a garment, or a nicely rounded chubby cheek.;)
     
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  11. GAJDAS

    GAJDAS Member

    I removed a green soffit from one piece. It seems to me that there are the same lines as in the previous photos. I only managed to take a picture of this quality ... Regards DSCN5764.JPG
     
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  12. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Can you feel the lines when you touch them? Or are they only visible?
     
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  13. GAJDAS

    GAJDAS Member

    They are only visible. By touching nothing feels any lines, protrusions, etc.
     
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  14. Hollyblue

    Hollyblue Well-Known Member

    It is ivory,but can't tell if it is mammoth or elephant.
     
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  15. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Elephant, I think. In mammoth ivory, where the Schreger cross makes an angle < 90 degrees. Angles here look much wider.
     
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  16. Hollyblue

    Hollyblue Well-Known Member

    They can be measured ... but they can also be very close to the same.

    Because specimens from both extinct and extant sources may present angles between 90 degrees and 115 degrees in the outer Schreger pattern area, the differentiation of mammoth from elephant ivory should never be based upon single angle measurements when the angles fall in this range.

    When averages are used to represent the angles in the individual samples, a clear separation between extinct and extant proboscideans is observed. All the elephant samples had averages above 100 degrees, and all the extinct proboscideans had angle averages below 100 degrees.


    https://www.fws.gov/lab/ivory_natural.php
     
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  17. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    One of the things I did before questioning whether a surface had to be rounded to show crosshatching was to examine the biggest piece of ivory I own, carved in a whole cross-section of tusk. It has a flat back & plenty of chubby cheeks, although no sleeves, and is getting to make regular appearances in various threads.

    upload_2018-3-24_14-49-18.png

    True, the grain in the flat background is nearly all straight. All sorts of grain on the putti (some of the little lines visible are tiny fissures in the surface that have picked up grime), but no Schreger lines anywhere that I could find, looking with magnification by a sunny window at surfaces at all different angles. The only part of the whole piece where there is any suggestion of crosshatching is around the edges, in the outermost layer. Yet there is no question the piece is genuine.

    From Real or Repro:

    The key feature to identifying elephant ivory is a unique pattern of crosshatching that appear in cross sections of elephant tusk. These lines, actually rows of microscopic tubes, are known as Schreger Lines; where they cross form Schreger Angles. Schreger Lines have never been duplicated in artificial plastics or resins. Schreger Lines must be present to qualify a pieces as elephant ivory. The lines are most easily seen in the bases of figures and anywhere cuts are made at right angles to the grain. [emphasis mine]

    and, about determining elephant or mammoth by measuring angles:

    Use the outer Schreger Angles (closest to the outside edge) only for this test. Do not use Schreger Angles in the center of the tusk. Measure at least five angles to get a true average.
     
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  18. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

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