paper experts? trying to date a piece by the paper

I have what i was thinking could be an original drawing that i've been researching for a couple of years. I finally took it out of the frame and have a couple of questions about the paper. If it is original it was done in about 1757, however it looks as if it is on wove which from my research came out around that time -paper see images. The possible artist was very highly respected and was painter to the king so may have had access to the latest and greatest. The paper is relatively thick - not floppy but somewhat crisp. from what i've read the norm for paper up to this time was laid paper which would demonstrate fine lines in the paper which i do not see here. questions are 1.woudl it be possible to have a piece on wove paper in 1757? 2. Does this seem to be something else? 3. Considering the description and picture, does this look to from a different time period?
i have just added a video

 

From that photo, it looks like vellum or parchment.

Other than that, wove paper was being produced in 1757, especially in England.

 

ok great, thanks.

 

yes i have found an etching of the image on the reverse and discovered its actual title. I believe the people that found it made that assumption but it's not reflected in the title. not trying to be cryptic but as I'm still researching i don't want my posts to start coming up. once I've exhausted my research can post more

 

I have uploaded a video where I'm looking at the paper if that helps anyone.

 

In the for what it's worth category. The fellow on whose farm this was found (according to the notes on the masking tape) was born in 1863 to a family that immigrated from Germany some time shortly before 1850. His parents, grandparents and a number of other relatives, all born in Germany were found on a farm in the right area of Ohio in the 1850 Census. It should be considered that this item could have been brought over with them and not created in the US.

All that masking tape and terrible water stains are making me nervous.

 

Yes original artist is French. It will be interesting to see if i can prove this is by him or just a later copy. great sleuthing on the family. I did look them up and teh farm but did not get to the extended ancestry.

 

Yes original artist is French. It will be interesting to see if i can prove this is by him or just a later copy. great sleuthing on the family. I did look them up and teh farm but did not get to the extended ancestry.

 

If you found the image online and know the original artist, are that artist's dates consistent with the time period you are considering?

A very tight close-up of some very small part of the image might help.

 

Yes, if the paper is in keeping then the dates seem to work. Just popped to the dentist- will post more once I get back.

 

Did you post a photograph of the work itself? Can't see one above.

Debora

 

1 by David Madacsi posted Nov 30, 2020 at 5:31 PM

2 by David Madacsi posted Nov 30, 2020 at 5:31 PM

3 by David Madacsi posted Nov 30, 2020 at 5:31 PM

4 by David Madacsi posted Nov 30, 2020 at 5:31 PM

5 by David Madacsi posted Nov 30, 2020 at 5:31 PM

So the original work is by Carle Vanloo and is titled Le Corps de Garde (has taken me years to discover). I have found a few etchings of this. My copy let's call it was found in a a storeroom on a farm in Ohio-it was first framed in the 50s and then in the 80s according to writing on the back. i found it at ARC thriftstore. This past weekend i finally took it out of the frame and looked at the paper and looked for a signature. No signature. Paper seems to be wove. The etchings stem from 1757 or there about so I'm trying to work out if this could have been preliminary drawing. Here is an etching. https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.110852.html
There is a book that lists the versions of this, including what seems to be a missing drawing,"n° 489, (lost drawing, known through engraving)" https://www.gazette-drouot.com/en/lots/13048420. by Sahut 1977 that i have found and ordered off ebay. So what i know - 1. image is Corp de Garde 2. Wove paper would have been around in 1757 according to post above. 3. There is no signature 4. it was found in Ohio
The other really interesting bit here is what we call an easter egg these days. If you look on the table near the plate there is a mustard pot. on it in red lettering it says mou tar fin. I've researched the shape of the mustard pot and that was the shape that was produced in the mid 1700s- so that seemingly helps to date this as well. see page 5 here https://www.yumpu.com/fr/document/read/43361603/il-n-est-moutarde-qu-a-dijon-musaces-de-bourgogne. I have put together a video of me taking the image out of the frame and looking at it close up and will post it when it's finished uploading.

 

Apparently your album is set to private and the pictures are not open to see.

 

@moreotherstuff cheers, think i fixed it

 

Yes, the pictures are there now. It looks like it could be a drawing. You may be at the point where you need to show it to someone who can give you hands-on advise. Are you close to any art museums?

 

yes is definitely a drawing. Yes I'm in the Denver area- not too far from Denver Art Museum. Maybe i should reach out.

 

Ask to speak to a curator about a drawing. You're not looking for an appraisal, just an idea of whether it's worth going farther and maybe what the next step should be. You've got lots of tentative information.

 

Thanks, that’s great advice

 

Here is the video I made