Fradelle & Marshall Cabinet Photo - London Royalty?

Hello Everyone!

I have had this one for awhile and I figured I'd post it up and get your lovely opinions!

I was told when I purchased this, that it was Royalty Arriving by boat on the "Royal Yacht"

They also claimed that then boat in the background was the HMS Victory (Nelson's Ship)


Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Warm Regards,
Jon

 

Definitely some kind of major ceremony! But I don't know what.

 

Unfortunately, the Zoom function doesn't "zoom" the images, just the rest of the page. Have you tried looking at the center of the image (the carriage in particular) to see the people sitting in it?

 

If you click on that arrow, next to the X, it does open another page with the photo somewhat larger.
But it is so badly faded, it didn't help - at least, not me it didn't.

 

It might be possible to do better with a scan of the original image at a fairly high resolution.

I can't really be sure what it is. I'm inclined to think not the Victory but the way she looks now, fully restored in a dry dock, may have been very different around 1900.

 

It's hard to tell if it's a Queen or King. Does look like a man and woman who are about to board the carriage. Could be a foreign dignitary?

 

someones having a big millitary shindig.....

 

I can try to get a scan of it, in a few

 

Been there, done that. We need an even closer view of the main action.

 

Queen Victoria is probably in that 1st carriage. I think I see a solitary woman on the seat facing forward in the first carriage. On the seat facing backwards appears to be 1 or 2 woman holding a parasol. That woman facing forward is probably QV. As queen she would be be seated by herself facing forward. The photographic studio of Fradelle & Marshall was in operation in the 1870s. The 1870s was in the midst of QV's reign. This might have been taken during QV Diamond Jubilee:
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P08243.015

Other CVs by Fradelle & Marshall
http://www.tumblr.com/search/'the heathen chinee' (poem)
http://earlyphotographers.blogspot.com/2011/04/fradelle-marshall.html

--- Susan

 

That's what I was thinking when I saw it. I've owned a couple Diamond Jubilee QV Pinback Buttons, but was unsure if that's what we were seeing here. It's been a mystery to me for a long while what actually is happening in this photo.

 

Would love to see a scan of this, when you get around to posting it.

 

Hi, Bake! Once you click the thumbnail, click the arrow at the top right corner of the pic. The arrow says "Open in new window" when the cursor hovers over it. Also if using a Firefox browser:
Click the thumbnail > right click the pic > select "View Image" > now the pic is zoomed and can made even bigger by holding the "Ctrl" button while rolling the wheel in the middle of the mouse.

--- Susan

 

Ah. I didn't think of that! Thanks, Susan

 

Wellll, even zooming on in doesn't help. I tried editing (zooming, cropping, sharpening, etc) the picture with no great difference. As the pic isn't posed, the people, animals, etc... are moving causing blurring all over the place. I don't think a scan will add much more to the pic. Have included an edited version that isn't any better than af's, in fact it is worst than af's.

--- Susan

 

If it's scanned and also edited, it will be better.

This photo is very faded with lots of small detail lost. But I still think that a scan will be better. It will be flat and head on, and also there won't be all of that pesky air between the image itself and the thing taking the picture.

 

It appears that Fradelle & Marshall only operated under that name in the 1870s. See the reply under this post:
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/topic5821.html

Also see what the National Portrait Gallery says:
http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person.php?LinkID=mp82132&wPage=1

According to this directory, they went bankrupt in 1877:

http://www.photolondon.org.uk/pages/details.asp?pid=2845

After that firm split up, Fradelle continued as a photographer, alone and with other partners.

So, this can be dated pretty narrowly from 1871-1877. This means it would not be a jubilee photo.

Also, just to make sure... this is a cabinet photo, correct? Not a CDV? That won't narrow down the date, but just reconfirming what you said above.

 

Here is the listing about Fradelle. He died in 1884, prior to the jubliee year of 1887

http://www.photolondon.org.uk/pages/details.asp?pid=2843

 

If it has to be within that narrow period of time, my belief is that the vessel at the dock isn't likely to be one of the Royal Yachts. I've been browsing lists of their dates of service (which almost always overlap) and pictures of same. None has the porthole configuration nor the gangway access doors we can see in the pic. They were all much lower to the water with only a single line of portholes above dock level. And none of them was painted white during that time.

 

The ship appears to be a laid up 2 decker of about 60 guns, the portholes are gunports. She would have been out of service for many years in 1870, whatever she was. Such ships were often used as headquarters for the port Admiral but that ship is going nowhere, she has had spars and topmasts removed along with all running and most of the standing rigging, just leaving the shrouds for the crew to man for ceremonial purposes.
The accommodation ways in the side and the alteration of some gunports to true portholes are typical of a ship laid up in ordinary or as a hulk. (a hulk does not mean a wreck, just a non seagoing ship)