Tell me about this guy

Discussion in 'Ephemera and Photographs' started by SeaGoat, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. SeaGoat

    SeaGoat Well-Known Member

    This is an Id'ed crayon enlargement (learned that term on here yesterday ;)) of Alfred Kelf.

    Alfred Kelf was born in 1846 in Yarmouth, Norfolk to Robert and Eliza Kelf.
    Alfred had a few sibling but his older sister Eliza is prevalent in this story.

    In 1851 Alfred is 5 years old living in a factory yard in Yarmouth and going to school
    In 1861 Alfred is 15 years old living on St. Nicholas Rd and is listed as a painter
    In 1871 Alfred is 25 years old living in Merton, Surrey. His occupation is listed a butcher and is the butler of a house. He is listed as married, but his wife does not live at the house.
    In 1881 Alfred is 35 years old living in Battersea, London, Surrey, England off Musjid Road and working as a Railway Policeman.
    He and his wife have listed living with them, daughters, Maude (1872), Lilley (1876), Gertrude (1878)
    1891 Alfred is 45 years old living in the same location but is now a Railway Porter and has added a daughter, Grace (1887)
    1901 Alfred is 55 years old and living in the same location and is a goods porter
    1911 Alfred is 65 years old and living in the same location and a railway porter.
    In early 1914 Albert passes away.

    But how does the Kelf name get passed on?
    Albert has a son, Sidney.
    Sidney was born in 1874 (Between Maude and Lilley).
    In the 1881 census he is listed as living with his aunt Eliza Barnes (married William Barnes in 1778).

    Sidney then drops off the face of the earth till he pops up in the United States in 1916 while seeking a passport to go see his elderly mother in england.
    He immigrated from Canada in Sept. of 1895 to New York where he lived for the last 20 years working as a stenographer in the mayors office.
    I think it was nice he got to see his mother a couple months before her death.

    So Sidney had a son, Sidney Alfred Kelf (1902-1966)
    Sidney Alfred had a son, Michael Kelf, b. 1946.

    So as Im trying to claw my way out of the black hole of genealogy Im left with a few questions...

    What time frame was this picture of Alfred Kelf?
    What is he wearing and why?
    How do you go from a painter, to a butcher/butler, to working on the railroad?

    Why did his son never live with him?
    Why/how would his son immigrate to the US with none of the family?
    Im guessing his son must have brought this picture back with him from England after visiting with his mother.


    And yes, this is the blue eyed man I want to bring home. Sorry the pictures are not the best and its not picking up great color. Its very dark (and spooky) in that house and we were so busy I didnt have time to take it outside
    20170720_170729.jpg 20170720_170721.jpg 20170720_170735.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
  2. Bev aka thelmasstuff

    Bev aka thelmasstuff Colored pencil artist extraordinaire ;)

    Hard to tell, but it looks like a handcolored copy of a photo which was popular then. Late 1800s?

    He's wearing a suit because people dressed up for photos in those days. As far as his job history, you get whatever jobs are available and/or the pay was better. Being a servant for people who could afford them didn't necessarily mean your family could live in the house as well. My husband had an ancestor who was in the census as a servant in the address of his employer, but his wife and daughter are listed in the same year as living at another address and that didn't seem like a mystery to me. Only grand homes had living quarters for a lot of servants. Many just came in during the day and worked or maybe stayed certain days and went home on their day off. Many families were living in different places due to work and other arrangements. My older brother lived with my aunt from ages 13-18 because my mother and step-father and I moved to a different town and he wanted to stay with his friends. Some families couldn't accommodate all their children because their houses were small and kids were sent to live with relatives. Maybe that doesn't happen as much anymore, but it was still the case in the 1950s when I was growing up. My best friend lived with her grandparents because her mother had a tiny apartment with two bedrooms and her two younger brothers stayed with her mother. It wasn't unique so we didn't really think anything of it. My French Canadian ancestors moved around a lot following jobs. I hope that helps answer some questions!
     
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  3. Figtree3

    Figtree3 What would you do if you weren't afraid?

    Looks like he is dressed in white tie, so pretty formal. Who knows what the occasion might be --

    Unless you wrote the second line on the back, somebody wrote it after 1946 when Michael was born. Not sure if that helps!

    You wrote, "How do you go from a painter, to a butcher/butler, to working on the railroad?"
    Note his ages for these jobs... he was a painter when he was 15 years old, not an adult yet. Perhaps working part-time or with somebody else. He was a butcher when he was 25, a young man who hadn't yet found what he would be doing most of his life. By age 35 he had started working on the railroad. To me it's interesting that he was a railroad policeman in one census and a railroad porter in the next. But I don't know much about what those jobs entailed then. Maybe neither of them required specialized education?

    About the time frame, I don't know much about men's shirt collars and jackets but guessing that his age is in his late 40s-early 50s in this photo? So just as a wild guess I'll say 1890s for the date. Similar to what Bev guessed.

    Regarding his son Sidney, do you have any access to the United States census records? I forget which country you live in. If you do have access, check the 1900 and 1910 censuses for Sidney. Perhaps he did come over with a relative. If you don't have access somebody here could check for him for you. I can't do it right now but might be able to later.

    Not sure why he didn't live with his father, since the girls did.
     
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  4. Mansons2005

    Mansons2005 Nasty by Nature, Curmudgeon by Choice

    White tie could mean he was a servant - a footman. There were known footman in the US until the 1960s. And depending on what sort of "porter" he was on the RR he may have worn formal dress as well.
     
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  5. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    In looking at that 1871 Census form (where someone has interpreted the writing as saying Alfred was a
    butcher by occupation and butler in the house) I don't see his occupation as "butcher." I see it as butler. I will admit that the writing is a bit tough to read (the "indexer" for the record on Ancestry transcribed the "relationship to head of household as "Brother" which makes no sense at all.)
     
  6. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    A few more interesting tidbits. Sidney's middle name was Robert. He "may" have enlisted in the Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders at the age of 18 (which would have been 1892) but Ancestry is not cooperating for me to see that document right now.

    What I did find was the Passenger List record of his departure from England in August 1895. The vessel left from Liverpool, bound for Montreal, Canada. Since his 1916 Passport Application says he came from Canada to NY by rail, it appears that Montreal was just a temporary stop on the journey.

    In NY he was living mostly on Staten Island (the borough of Richmond.) I found him there in both 1900 and 1910, with wife Grace (they were married about 1898) and their kids (including son Sidney Alfred, born 1902) in the 1910 Census.

    I also found is Naturalization Application which confirms these details.
     
  7. Figtree3

    Figtree3 What would you do if you weren't afraid?

    Good points!
     
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  8. LIbraryLady

    LIbraryLady Well-Known Member

    I initially thought he was the artistic type of painter, but probably being a painter at that young age meant painting houses, fences, whatever.

    Also - perhaps he was issue of the dad, but not Eliza despite your source, and Eliza wouldn't raise him as such, but the aunt did?? Just a theory.
     
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  9. SeaGoat

    SeaGoat Well-Known Member

    I thought maybe he was out of wedlock?

    I think you're probably right about the painter being of not portrait type.

    Thanks for looking him up! Im using familysearch.org and you sometimes only get "some" information before being outsourced..
    They didn't have him in the 1900 or 1910 census threat I could find.

    No ones asked about him today.
    I'm about to see if I can take Alfred home with me :D
     
  10. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    If someone's occupation was painting artwork of some kind, the designation would have been "artist." A "painter" did the run of the mill wielding of a brush to apply paint to walls and fences. ;)

    Is there no family involved? How sad.
     
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  11. SeaGoat

    SeaGoat Well-Known Member

    No, both the people from the estate have passed with no children and all other family has taken what they want and live out of state
     
  12. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    :( He needs a home. ;)
     
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  13. SeaGoat

    SeaGoat Well-Known Member

    I gave him one :)
     
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  14. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

  15. SeaGoat

    SeaGoat Well-Known Member

    I brought him home tonight and took him out to clean the inside of the glass.

    If you touch the image it smudges, like it's a fine powdery chalk.

    I didn't think he looked 40s.
    Take away the beard I see young 30s, maybe I'm wrong. :rolleyes:

    Anyways, here he is without the reflection of glass

    20170721_233532.jpg

    20170721_233541.jpg
     
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  16. Figtree3

    Figtree3 What would you do if you weren't afraid?

    Well, I have always been bad at guessing ages of people in 19th-century photos. They often do look older to me than they actually were. Maybe if we can confirm when that lapel size was popular, that would help in the dating.

    However, the creases around the outer edges of his eyes say older than young 30s to me. But again, I'm not good at guessing.
     
  17. Bev aka thelmasstuff

    Bev aka thelmasstuff Colored pencil artist extraordinaire ;)

    As I mentioned in an earlier post, my brother was raised by my aunt because he wanted to stay in the city where his friends were and not change schools when we moved to the country. He was 13 and I was 3 and we never lived in the same house again. He went into the service and then got married.
     
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