Any Gorham Sterling Silver Expert/s?

I was browsing ebay, trying to find an anniversary gift for my wife. I've always wanted to buy her a sterling silver vanity set. i.e A hand held mirror, brush, and comb. I saw this brush which has the perfect pattern I know she'd love:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182229120388

Problem is, I don't even know if it ever came as a set. That auction states it is called: "Repousse Hand Chased Floral".

There is a very similar model by the same manufacturer, only slightly newer I believe. It has a blank area for engraving and less detail (which makes it seem less attractive). This second type seems more plentiful, and does often have all three items (brush, comb & mirror). I think that second type is called: "Buttercup".

So I'd like to know where to find a Gorham expert. Can anyone help? I'd like to ask them the following:

a) If that first brush in that above auction, ever came as a set - what it's called - and what was included. (No point me chasing after it, if it was never available as a set.)

b) Where can I find people that focus on collecting/selling such things? (Obviously there's ebay... But I was hoping I could pinpoint it faster than waiting a decade, lol.)

Thanks for reading.

 

Welcome, RealFamilyMan! What a nice gift that would be!

This brush is design number 90 and has a date symbol (the "infinity sign" below the 90) which puts this in 1893. The question becomes whether the other pieces in the set (and I do believe it was part of set) had +1 numbers going up from the 90 (91,92,93 etc) or (as happened in tea and coffee sets) the additional pieces had the 90 with a dash and numbers 1, 2, 3, and so forth.

Let me look around. I don't think I have ever seen (not that I've seen everything by a longshot, mind you) a vanity set made to match a flatware pattern.

 

Well, I think I know the numbering pattern for this one now. Sequential numbers. The very same seller has a matching clothes brush and the number on that one is 98, so we know there were at least 9 pieces (90 - 98.)

Pieces of a set could be quite numerous - various sizes of clothes brushes, hair brush, comb, mirror (sometimes more than 1 type), nail buffer (and other nail care implements), button hook and various jars and other containers with sterling tops on glass bases.

I think I saw the same pattern identified by another seller as "Cluny" - but whether that was the official Gorham name is questionable. The one with "buttercup" in the title appears not to match the Buttercup flatware pattern, although there are some small flowers in the design that are at least similar in shape to the ones in the Buttercup pattern. The same type of assumption may have influenced the seller who is calling the vanity pieces "Cluny." You'd have to do a careful side by side comparison to see if it's even a match to the one you really like.

 

Hi Bakersgma, I have learned so much from you, I am happy to add this little tidbit.
I once had a 5 or 6 pce. vanity set in Whiting, Madam Jumel pattern.
Somewhat embarrassed to admit I didn't recognize the pattern, even though I had inventory of flatware in the pattern at that time.
The purchaser however did recognize the dresser set as a match to their own flatware and were delighted to find it. Win/Win.

 

That 2nd set you refer to with an engraving area is probably what replacements.com calls Gorham's "Repousse Chased" pattern. Replacements.com shows the complete dresser/vanity set. Replacements.com is "out of stock" of the pieces, but you can get the idea what came in the set.
http://www.replacements.com/webquote/gs_repc.htm

Here is a direct link to the picture of the complete set:
https://images.replacements.com/images/images2/flatware/G/P0000295659S0016T2.jpg

--- Susan

 

If you can't find a Gorham set to your liking, you might try looking at Kirk Stieff repousse silver vanity/dresser sets.

--- Susan

 

Thank you, Bakersgma...

I wasn't sure if that sideways 8 meant infinity, or was just turned sideways to fit. ;-) That, plus me not being able to work out the left-most symbol on the brush... No wonder I was having so much trouble identifying them using manufacturer examples online.

1893... Wow! So I guess I'm not going to find them any time soon. :-( Particularly an undamaged brush. (I've only been looking at such things for 48 hours, but have already seen several hair brushes with handle damage.

I did notice that clothes brush you mention from the same seller. But because I couldn't clearly see the hair brush symbols to confirm if they were the same - and the pattern seemed a little different (to me) - it made me think it could be a different pattern. I also assumed each manufacturer would have made a few several different types each year. So I was getting a bit lost.

I've seen a couple of multi-piece sets online, like you describe - with the silver-topped glass jars, button hook, nail buffer, etc. So I thought there might be several pieces. But tbh, I was hoping no... Because how could I justify the prices I'm seeing for complete sets. But since they're turning up as individual pieces, that might not be a problem. (Finding them at all is going to be the real problem, lol.)

Sandra: Thanks - yes, I was trying to compare the brush with flatware about 24 hours ago - to try and find the correct name. Because there's so little of the pattern on flatware, I didn't get very far. ;-)

Susan: Thank you for that link. The oblong clothes brush there looks so similar to the one Bakersgma mentions on ebay. I can see the difference, but even that ebay pattern seems a little different to the hairbrush.

Here's both links again:

http://www.replacements.com/webquote/gs_repc.htm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/182219630319

The ebay clothes brush probably matches the hair brush that I came here to ask about... But I'm seeing people online too, mixing up the names of 2-3 different patterns. :-|

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look that style up now. I knew this present would probably be late. But I didn't expect it might take years - maybe never - to find. :-(

Is there a... 'wanted' site, where people can list what items they're after, a place that dealers frequent? (Or vice-versa... Is there site where dealers list en masse?) Or is it just: "ebay"?

Initially I wanted to buy new. But I'm in Australia... And I went to the few 'high-end' stores 40 miles away. The next closest is at least 95 miles away... But Australia is just more of the same chain stores in every suburb. So few tradesmen (of any kind of skilled trade) left. The products you see at one end of the country, is the same as the other. There was one small sterling silver newborn set. Certainly nothing like these beautiful patterns of years gone by. (Or any other kind of silverware for that matter, apart from flatwear.)

Anyway... Are there manufacturers in the UK/USA/etc. that still make such items, new?

Btw... What does www.replacements.com do exactly... i.e. One moment their site wording sounds like they make modern reproductions of vintage items - but the next it sounds like have to search for items - so... they sell originals on consignment!?

 

Say, in regards to that picture Susan provided...

https://images.replacements.com/images/images2/flatware/G/P0000295659S0016T2.jpg

... the two hair brushes look only slightly different in size, but maybe one was just used more than the other. I've also seen twin brushes online where they appear to be the same, or nearly the same size, with bristles that seem to be the same type. Does anyone know the purpose of two hair brushes in the same set?

 

Hi again! I'll try to answer at least some of your questions.

First - about patterns in flatware versus "Hollowware." They often look different, even if they were intended to match. Think about the challenge the designer is facing - translating the flatware design (where a handle is a handle and that's all they need to cover) into decoration for bowls and pots and platters etc. Different shapes and sizes often mean the hollowware items have no places on which the replicate the flatware exactly. So they take the major elements and have to add complementary elements (that may not exist on the flatware) to make a cohesive piece. The same is true with the various pieces in a grooming set. Design elements that you need to use may end up in a slightly different place than they occupied on another piece. The element that convinced me that the clothes brush matched the hair brush is the circular cluster of flowers at the far end of the hair brush - 5 in a circle with a 6th in the center. That same cluster is on the far end of the clothes brush.

Second - As for manufacturers of new items, I assume you mean brushes, combs and mirrors? I'm not sure. Maybe someone else will know.

Third - Replacements buys the pieces they sell. As far as I know they do not take consignments. In some cases they will "hand-craft" items that either did not exist when the pattern was in original production or to fill out the piece list in their inventory (they make those when ordered I believe.) How? By having handles in inventory that have been harvested from pieces with damage to the "business end."

I really wish I could have found more of this particular pattern for you. At least you know what numbers to look for. It's a shame that the ebay sellers seem not to think the design numbers are important in their titles or descriptions.

Good luck with your search!

 

Thank you.

 

Say, can you good folks answer another question?

I've found two Gorham hair brushes, from different sellers, that seem to have the same pattern, also appear to be the same physical shape (a hair brush shape, not an oblong or oval clothes brush shape). But I cannot judge if the sizes are exactly the same, because they're two different auctions. And it's difficult to tell with one, but they both seem to have the same date marks too.

BUT one has the number 602, and the other has 602A...

Any idea what the "A" denotes? I have seen (only) a couple of sets for sale online, where there are two brushes that shape. The listings stated one is a clothes brush, one is a hair brush. But it's difficult to know if the sellers genuinely know what they're talking about.

* Would they be from the same set?
* Or the same pattern but a later year with some minor modification to earn the "A"?
* Is one maybe a clothes brush, even though it's shaped like a hair brush? (Do you actually see that happen in these sets?)
* Something else?

The two can be seen here:

602: http://www.ebay.com/itm/252943398163
602A: http://www.ebay.com/itm/272686125928

Oh - and has anyone ever had sterling silver engraving filled/hidden, and/or the piece restored? I know there are places online advertising they will do it. But it concerns me what the final result would be like. (If it really looks like new/invisible, or if the engraving is still visible, etc. Because it doesn't make sense to me the engraving would be completely gone - slightly dissimilar mixes of silver, etc.)

 

To remove a monogram on sterling they usually "sand" down the silver until the monogram is no longer visible. That is why removal on plate is so iffy - you can remove the plate down to the base metal.

 

Thoughts - they may be slightly different sizes but only the 602 gives dimensions. You could message the seller of 602A and ask for length. I will say that they appear to have different bristles, but that could be a case of the pictures. The bristles I see in the 602A pictures are definitely not for brushing clothes.

With the basic number being 602, the addition of the A means a different piece of the same pattern. I have seen sets with 2 slightly different sized hair brushes.

Gorham uses "date marks" to show different years. They do not change the pattern number or add a letter to it.

I did notice that the comb that comes with the 602A is not a 602 number but something else - either 0155 or 0255.

As to the question of filling or buffing out the monogram - I have not had it done myself. Most of the time monogram removal is done by buffing the existing surface down and I would be rather cautious on the thought of removing a mono on something like this. On flatware you have a significant depth of solid sterling which will withstand this serious buffing. But the depth of the sterling "skin" on a hair brush is an unknown quantity and may be too thin to do this successfully.

In either case, you do run the risk of the process creating an area which has a different look.

 

Yes, I thought the comb was from a different set. That comb was one reason I was considering that auction. Because I don't know when, or if I'll ever, find a set with a matching brush, comb, and mirror - and I was trying to 'build' a set from different auctions.

It becomes even more frustrating, when you realise many mirrors don't have long handles... Many just have circular 'loops' as handles. So if I buy a brush intending to wait for someone to list a matching mirror for auction, it may never have come with a matching mirror with a long handle.

I wish I could get some kind of old catalogue showing pictures. It looks like this is going to take years. (And I can't think of a different gift, lol.)