Featured Early Burr Walnut Davenport Desk by T. Wilson..Royal?

I do believe the RW crown on the advertisement belongs to a royal woman because of the shape of the crown. A Queen's crown is double lobed while a king's crown is sort of dome shaped. I certainly can't tell you who the Royal Warrant belongs to on your lock because it is too worn in the pics for these old eyes to see, but it may be a double lobed crown also???



The crown of the Royal Warrant on that Bramah's advertisement dates after 1841 because the company name says Bramah, Prestage & Ball. From that chronological history of the company website, in 1841 the "lock business was separated from the engineering business. The former because the Bramah & Co. and the latter became known as Bramah, Prestage & Ball."

Soooo as the ad dates after 1841 and has a Queen's crown, it is probably Queen Vic. Welll nowwwww, call be a liar, I just stumbled on the RW of HM Queen Elizabeth, the Queen mother's RW. It has a dome shape crown!



Welllll, another thread I should have stayed out of.

--- Susan

 

No Susan you have made some very good points and I knew about kings and queens have different shaped crowns but I never applied that knowledge to this query thank you, I am open to any line of inquiry, even if it's one that devalues the piece, I would rather know the truth, if someone can provide anything concrete I'll be happy to accept it either way. The fact that I have seen a Bramah lock personalised with a Earls coronet on a box known to have once been owned by an Earl gives me hope that it might have been royal and until I can prove otherwise it's worth keeping at it.

 

Any drawer where you have to do something else to release it is a secret drawer because it is only accessible to someone who knows what to do to release it.
Try to avoid flash with close-ups the flash burn renders your lock close-ups very hard to see. All pictures with flash burn should be discarded and done again using ambient light even if it involves moving the object to somewhere lighter or using an independent llight source.
I have just had a look at a stationary cabinet I have that has a Bramah lock, and on that it only says Bramah London.I think the cabinet iis about 1900.


I think the idea of a royal household marking things by stamping a lock-plate is highly improbable. No one would do this because no one would have reason to do so. It's not the sort of thing someone could casually walk off with, like silver flatware that everyone had crested or initialled.
Maker's marks vary widely, there are probably many times more mark variants than have ever been documented and not all of the documented ones will have found their way onto the internet.
It is a fine piece but unless you could find some more positive provenance such as a picture of the desk in situ in one of the many royal palaces I think any royal connection is implausible.

 

The Queen Mother would have a king's crown because she was not royal in her own right, like Victoria or QEII, but by virtue of her husband being King.

 

Wow that's a lovely and super stunning stationary cabinet, wheres that envy emoji I will try and do better photos, you're right by disabling the flash, especially when taking pictures of of reflective wood such as mahogany or walnut, yes I see your point on secret drawers, my thinking was because you can see the drawer is wasn't secret. The personalisation service was offered to Bramah customers and companies alike who used Bramah locks, if a piece was commissioned by a client the maker would get Bramah to stamp it with what ever the customer wanted instead of having it engraved after the piece was made, this showed the piece was a bespoke order, there are boxes known to have had this process, such as the one I mentioned earlier where a box made for an Earl was stamped with his coronet as well as firms like Asprey ect. If I can find another piece with a royal crest stamped known to be in the royal possession then I can take it further by asking the royal households if they have a record but I'm sure that would take a lot of digging, there's no point if someone in here can show me conclusive poof that it's been faked or royal crests on locks of that date are common. When I phoned Bramah they didn't dismiss it, in fact they were almost sure that was what happened but they couldn't confirm it because of the fire.

 

It's really worth me finding out for sure as a table that was in auction recently estimated at £2000-£3000 made £40,000 because of the royal connection. BTW that was stamped.
https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2010/drum-table-from-windsor-castle-takes-40-000/

 

That table had a cast iron provenance with labels tied to an existing inventory.

 

"The underside of the table is stamped with a Queen's crown, the initials VR, the year 1866, and the words Windsor Castle - Room 243."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-antique-furniture-to-be-sold-at-auction.html

 

Oh I know, and if mine had such labels it would have already been sold lol but the fact that I can't find another Bramah lock with the same crest stamp leads me to think that, 1) the stamp is fake 2) the crest was used for a short period by Bramah and Bramah have no knowlage of it, or 3) it was made for the royal family. 1 and 2 are unlikely

 

I think 2 is by far the most likely. You really hope choice 3 is true. I do not have a dog in the fight and think choice 2 is the most probable.

 

I did find one photo with multiple strikes of the name:


I did find COAs for George II/III and William IV all of which had crowns that might be described as lobed.

The COAs of those same Kings had an "escutcheon overall" which denoted their Hanoverian title. This could be that circle thing that's in the center of the "warrant" here. (lobed crown on that)


(I put warrant in quotes because I'm still not entirely convinced.)

It seems to me very unlikely, but not completely inconceivable, that that crest is a "prestige" mark, and not a true warrant. I did once have a Victorian silverplate bowl that had "hall marks" that, so far as I could tell, were gibberish.

 

It is certainly true that most British silverplate had marks designed to make the neighbours think your flatware was solid silver.
It would be considered rude to examine the cutlery while the host or hostess was actually looking. So you'd probably not be using a hallmark book at the table.

 

That desk is just waaaay too beautiful for it's own good!!!!!!!!! GORGEOUS!!!!!!! (green with envy!!)

 

Thank you it was a present for my wife who never wants anything so after 25 years I decided to buy her something without her knowledge. At first she was shocked at the cost but now she wouldn't have had anything different. When I go into the room it's in I say how gorgeous you are, when my wife looks up I'm staring at the desk lol it's a long running joke.

 

Have a look at
https://antiquesworld.co.uk/antique-davenport-desk/
for others like this, very nice!

 

Have a look at
https://antiquesworld.co.uk/antique-davenport-desk/
for others like this, very nice!

 

I'll give them a ring tomorrow and ask if the locks have a crest it's a real pity that the lock plate is just out of focus It is a later version of mine as it's marked M Wilson, after T Wilson died

https://www.antiques.co.uk/antique/William-IV-Rosewood-Davenport-Desk

 

Wow they are everywhere tonight lol
https://www.loveantiques.com/antiqu...ency-pollard-oak-sliding-top-davenport-144033

 

https://lapada.org/art-and-antiques/antique-george-iv-walnut-davenport-by-thomas-wilson/

 

https://www.christiandaviesantiques...nport-By-Gillows-Of-Lancaster-C1840-1850.aspx