Is this authentic?

The entirety by William123 posted Mar 11, 2017 at 10:13 AM

The seal by William123 posted Mar 11, 2017 at 10:13 AM

I have a painting that says, "Published according to Act of Parliment oct 4. 1777, by J.F.W DesBarres" with raised words "admiralty charts" wrapped around the Royal Navy seal next to it. Depicting 5 scenes, those being Highland of Neversunk, the south shore of Long Island, New York with the entrance of north and east rivers, the light house at sandy hook, and the narrows. Hand painted, fading ink. Assuming it's real, how much would it be worth?

 

It's a aquatint print of the painting and not the original. Still worth something but not as much as a painting. It should read somewhere who the engraver is.

 

Found a few similar ones.

http://www.baynton-williams.com/Paul-Sandby-Prints.htm

 

I truthfully think it's genuine. I have yet to see a print with a raised Royal Navy seal on it. How long does it take ink to start to fade?

 

Welcome, William! How about posting some pictures of it?

 

Alright, I posted a couple pictures.

 

Depending on value.... I may be interested if you are to sell it.
If so...message me please.

 

The paper isn't right for 1777. It should be laid paper. More info on it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laid_paper

As far as I can tell, these views were printed at the bottom of charts such as this....


....or sometimes in book form such as this.....



Admiralty charts is the official UK navigational chart purveyor. I am guessing this is something released by them or more likely licensed by them as a commemorative, though I can find no direct confirmation of such. They are produced by the UK Hydrographic office. Their website is here.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/uk-hydrographic-office

It is possible that you could inquire with them about this.

 

There's no possible way this type of paper was used around that time period? It's hand painted, you can tell because the paint ran. One of my original questions, how long does it take ink to start to fade like it has?

 

I found similar without the seal as a reproduction by Heritage Charts....

http://www.heritagecharts.com/mapch...our__colour_/272f4efacb90d76385500f8827665425

 

This is modern paper as far as I can tell from the photo. It would not have been available in 1777. I provided the link about laid paper so that you can determine this for yourself. The original this was produced from would have been hand colored and faded. When a reproduction was made from it, all subtleties of the original would be conveyed to the print. Also, if this were produced in 1777, I would expect to see a plate impression around the image. In fact, you can see the plate impression in both images I posted above. I see none in yours.

 

What other types of paper were used for important documents around that time period?

 

Because if it's real, respectively, it was seen as a document, not a painting.

 

I know how illusive the mind can be if it want to believe something, believe me I've been there. Sometimes you can't deny facts. The link which I mentioned earlier. This is a citaat from the website.

"Publish'd according to Act of Parliament by P. Sandby St. Georges Row Sepr. 1st. 1776.
Aquatint printed in sepia and finished by hand.

Didnt had to see the pictures to know it's a print. The word published according to a act say more than enough.

Every heard a painting that had to past a act of parlement or copyright.

These are a collection of works painted by the artist. I'm sure you will find them if you search on images on Google. Why should a artist paint his paintings again.

 

Everyone is overlooking the Royal Navy seal, I can't find that anywhere and some of his other originals have similar seals. The guy was directed by the British navy to make these charts, I suspect it's an original from the Atlantic Neptune series.

 

Not overlooking it. It is not a Royal Navy Seal. It is a seal for Admiralty Charts. I provided a link to the government office that oversees Admiralty Charts. Please contact them for more information. I have provided all I can at this point.

 

And you can't really determine what type of paper it is, those aren't very clear pictures. It could possible be handmade paper, it's somewhat porous looking.

 

..... and this is why I provided a link about laid paper. It is entirely possible that your photos are not good enough for us to authenticate this. You will need to do that and it may involve removing this from the frame to have a look. I can only provide information on what I can see. I believe I am right but would be happy to be proven wrong.

 

It's quite possible that admiralty charts dates back and provided the service for publishing these charts for the Royal Navy, that's my thought. I'll look further into it.

 

I'm not comfortable removing the frame, if it is genuine, it could be a very important piece of history.