Featured Questions About A Victorian Pocket Watch Slide Chain w/Jewels and The Devil & Gargoyles

I got this about a year ago on ebay and the seller gave little info. I put it into a shadow box with my antique hair jewelry pocket watch chains and little miniature antique coin purses. I forgot I even had it. Tonight I saw it again and figured at least one of you would know more about it. Whatever I could see of the mark looks like it says Bates & Bacon, but I could be wrong.

It is a long ladies pocket watch slide chain necklace and has the most unusual fob charms hanging from it. Since I have it pinned to the velvet board, it looks shorter than in person. I had to fold it to get it to fit in my shadow box scene.

(Yikes! One of the fobs looks like the devil! The other looks like a gargoyle and in my opinion looks like the cartoon character Stitich, from Lilo & Stitch, lol. Stitch looks like he has little green gems for eyes. He has a toothy grin and bat ears of some sort.

The Devil (gulp!) has a faceted gem that looks like citrine and Lilo has a cabochon style citrine gem too. The piece is marked (see pictures) and I think the metal is made out of some kind of brass? It is heavy piece. I took the panel out of the shadowbox I made because the glass had too much glare to take pictures. I pinned everything in and didn't want to undo the pins so I couldn't show you guys better detail in my pics.

My questions are:

***Is the beaded purse on the top right side an Iriquois Beaded Purse?

-Are the gems real citrine and emeralds?

-Could this piece have once been gold plated and the gold wore off?

-What do you call these characters? Are they gargoyles, mythical creatures/beasts?

-How old is this? Maybe Art Nouveau era?

-Is it rare?

I am so sorry I put so many pictures. I just wanted to show you guys as much detail as I could. Thanks in advance for your replies


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More pictures...
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tarot, baphomet etc. . or of a member of those crazy "masonic" lodges by Aleister Crawley etc.

 

I'm scared now! I guess I got a devil worshiper's pocket watch chain, lol

 

you have to keep it under lock and key at night or it'll kreep out of the kase and will krawl to your bed and will karotte you !

 

Ha Ha! It's in the naughty corner right now. I have the glass display part up against and facing the wall so I don't have to look at the devil before I fall asleep tonight, lol

 

Nice items, Sync. But this thread is a bit confusing to me. A lot going on at the same time. I understand why, it is all in the same shadow box, but it is making my head spin, especially since I have to do a lot of scrolling. So I will take it one at a time.

No, it isn't Iroquois. This spiralling design was fashionable here in the Netherlands, and no doubt in other Western countries as well. Ladies could buy patterns and bead knit them themselves, or buy them ready-made.
It is a pretty purse, nice fringe too. Is the metal silver? Did you check for marks?

 

Thanks for your helpful reply! I love this forum because I learn a new thing every day. It didn't even dawn on me to check for silver marks. I just thought it was metal. I bought it off an ebay seller in Europe and had it shipped to New York. I forgot what country it came from.

Sometime later on, I will try to remove the pins holding it in the shadow box and take a look. I didn't think a little purse like this would have a silver frame. I hope it is silver. If I find out, I will let you know

 

I'm so sorry If I overwhelmed you. I tend to overdo it sometimes. I apologize and am so sorry if I gave you a bit of a headache. I feel so ashamed because I am overly chaotic. You are such a nice person and I appreciate your comments.

I feel embarrassed for putting all these pictures here and having so many questions. I put a lot of pictures so everyone can see all angles and sides of the piece. I threw in pics of the whole shadow box to show how big it is next to everything else. Next time I will make it easier to read my topic, put less photos and not be all over the place.

 

In that case Iroquois would be even more unlikely. Even though my country was the first and only country to recognize the Mohawk Nation as a sovereign nation, there weren't any Native American craftspeople in Europe at the time. That I know off anyway.

Just a little note: If it came from Continental Europe, it wouldn't be called Victorian, since Victoria was a British queen. Continental countries had their own rulers to deal with.

Don't worry, I'll be ok. After a bit of a lie down in a darkened room.

Really love that slide chain.

It looks like gilded brass with some loss of gilding. I don't know if it is actually plated, we need better eyes than mine.
Since it is brass, the 'stones' are likely to be glass. The green ones are glued in, so they are definitely glass. Looks like the amber coloured ones are also glued in.

No gargoyles, mythical creatures is fine. Maybe one of the others will be able to id them.

I would say ca 1880s-90s, with a clear Renaissance Revival and Symbolist influence. It reminds me of some of the costume jewellery that came out of Venice, except they would usually have some Murano art glass in there too.

Edited to add the little note on Victorian.

 

I will send you a bottle of Excedrin Pills for headaches, lol. Again, I apologize.

Actually, I made an error. I did not get that beaded purse from Europe. I got the little leather one that is in the shadowbox from Europe. I got the beaded purse from a seller who was located in upstate New York. I pulled my records from my past ebay purchases to see where I got it from just now.

The info you have given me on the slide chain is fascinating! Thanks so much. Again, I greatly appreciate you and am so sorry I made your head spin.

 

I did some more research. I think one of the fob charms might not be the devil after all. I found some things on Google that looked like him and was called a "Satyr" "Faun" "Pan" (basically Greek/Roman God figures). Whew! I'm glad it isn't a devil worshiper's necklace chain after all, lol.

Something similar in style (not the same, but of the era): https://picclick.com/Rare-Antique-Art-Nouveau-Gold-Filled-Emerald-Citrine-372593209261.html

The seller's description said the following:
(I guess the seller added it to a rope chain necklace and modified it). "I believe the pendant was originally part of a watch fob. It depicts two detailed devil or satyr faces accented with tiny emerald pastes at the eyes. A large citrine colored paste sits at the base of the pendant".

 

I think @komokwa or @all_fakes - may be able to shed some light on identification of the figures that aren't gargoyles, they look Native American in design to me. There is some odd "Egyptian" look too, but perhaps that's just my brain trying to trick me up!

 

Probably part of the Symbolist and Renaissance look. They loved historical references in those days.

I think you mean the winged figure? The resemblance is probably a coincidence.



I can see what you mean though:

 

exactly!

 

Perhaps the presence of the figures on the chain was just meant to generically symbolize the wearer's interest in other cultures... kind of like the Egyptian craze in jewelry later.
I'm a complete novice in the area but my first impression was also that the winged face looked Native American or Inuit, like a thunderbird on a tiki/totem.




Or this Haida wood carving:

 

What is the company name on the link above the square stone?

 

Lady, you gots some nice Bling !!!!!!!
Don't apologize for showing it off all at once , our exploding heads....will heal !!!


That hair rope....is hard to look away from !!!!!

This is not a Northwest Coast 1st Nations design......



But........... I'd like a word with whom ever cast it , to see if ...maybe...they were influenced by some Haida designs they may have seen , because even I would be caught double checking the face, just to make sure I wasn't missing something that would lend itself to a bygone era design that I was unfamiliar with.
Even with my nose in the air as high as it could go......I could not find fault with anyone thinking that there is a NWC connection , coming from this facial design !!!

 

I can’t add anything to what Any Jewelry said!
Except I LOVE these hairwork chains!!! And they seem in very good condition

 

I was thinking it was simply "inspired" by such NA designs.