Help with Hallmarks and dating Chatelaine?

Hi again!!! I have a nice silver Chatelaine from Mom's 'stuff'....no clue when or where she may have gotten it other than an auction or antique shop somewhere! It is 1 2/2" at the widest part and 3 1/2" at the longest. There are two marks on the front.....one near the person's upright arm (not well pictured in a close-up), and the other on the 'hook' that one would hang whatever from. There are five marks pictured on the back... I'm not sure what's going on with that lion other than he IS facing Right.....I tried looking everything up and really DID NOT get very far! Any and ALL help or pointing will be GREATLY appreciated!!!! Would love to know how old this thing is!!!!! As ALWAYS THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!!

EDIT....I have deleted the two badly blurry images and reposted separately!!

View attachment 57218 View attachment 57221

 

Dutch, I think. At least that's where the lion is from.

http://www.925-1000.com/Fnetherlands_Date_Code.html

 

Hi Bakers! First off, that is the ONLY hint I finally did come up with with the right facing lion!! Thanks!!!!! AND, I went at those two marks on the FRONT of the piece with my microscope.....one is a FACE!!!!! The other ....on the hook....looks like it might have writing or numerals on it???......Please let me know what you think???

 

That does look like the Minerva's head duty mark. If there's a letter in somewhere (should be below her head) that would be a assay office letter.

 

Bakers, would that still lead to Dutch??? And THANK YOU!!!!!

 

Yes, it would. If you look back at the link I gave, the Dutch Minerva head is shown next to the lion in Example B.

 

Is Chatelaine cute?

 

Actually, King, the face looks like someone might have 'buffed' it too hard!!! Almost grotesque! @Bakersgma I can't say I see a letter but there's a clear # 6 (or 9) (I think?) just outside of the Minerva circle....as shown.....It also looks like there might be a scratched in 'K' in the head or an 'A' on it's side towards the back of the hair......I think that's all I see............the microscope keeps showing up all kinds of things!!!!!

 

The letter should be inside the punch, on the helmet (now that I read the footnotes again) - at least according to the footnotes on 925-1000.

 

So the number outside the punch may have no meaning.....and to me that looks more like hair than a helmet??? But there does appear to maybe be an A lying down there.....and YES!! I did go back and check out your link!! HA! And bookmarked it!! In using the microscope on the other "hallmarks", if I can squeek 3 more in....the results are interesting........
Not sure if those are just 'blobs' on the lion...looks like there are CP then the #5 along the lion's back.....

Don't know WHAT to make of this...all of a sudden I see a 'face' at the top near the right in 'gold', but looks like there's a siggy down the left and on the bottom....can they do that that tiny????


Here I see either 2 dogs facing each other or a boar on the left and a dog on the right. Don't know WHAT the 'gold looking 'pebbles are around the boar's side. That's it!!!! That's ALL I've GOT. Will keep trying to find out more, but Bakers, you may have already nailed it and I do thank you for your help!!! If anyone else would like to chime in, I'm ALL EARS!!!!! I am now crashing for the night!!!

 

That looks more like a 2 under the lion (where the purity number should be.) 2 stands for .833 silver fineness.

Those other 2 are a mystery to me.

 

The microscope photos show many things,in modern terms the casting is a piece of "junk". The whole piece appears to have porosity,the bottom photo is a cavity with the "gold" metal being some type of contaminate which shows up in the other photos.Possibly bad mold,bad silver,bad melting crucible,etc.

 

@Bakersgma I found some info at this site: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40067 when looking for more info on Dutch hallmarks! Don't know for sure how accurate the info is, but it had three of my markings.....still nothing on the "two animals?" though......so, yes, it's a 2 under the lion as you said, confirming purity, and what I thought, in the next to last picture, were letters, appears from the website, might be a sailboat???

 

There are no 2 animals in the last photo,it is cavity/pocket which some of the contaminants have fallen out over time.

 

Very interesting!

 

Scroll down to the May 28, 2012 post regarding Hooijkaas on this link http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28590 provided by Oel on the post you linked (Oel is Dutch, and very knowledgeable on Dutch silver) - you'll find your set of pseudo-marks in the first picture under the 'Pseudo marks or fantasy marks' section (less your official marks, and there is likely a date letter somewhere on your piece too). The mark that looks like animal heads to you is a fake Amsterdam city mark with only two St. Andrew's crosses.

~Cheryl

 

Hollyblue, holding the item in my hand and under loup or microscope, there are definitely two raised images...........just can't figure what of...........in the last picture......

 

Bakersgma - thought you might like to know about this ongoing thread on Dutch marks that Oel pinned to the top of the Dutch forum:

http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32028

~Cheryl

 

Thank you, Cheryl! I often forget to search the Forums when looking for greater details than have been incorporated into the main site country list!

 

Not much updating on the main website in recent years, there are reasons for that, but not mine to tell...

~Cheryl