Free Shipping or Charging The Rate Outright

Hello -

I hope it is OK to ask this question here; I wouldn't ask it on the eBay forums as the Mods would likely move it to the Shipping Board and I'm really looking for factual input from other PGP sellers - this is really where the input is the most valued to me and perhaps to others. I've never posted about this on a forum and I know it is not uncommon sadly, many TRS and other sellers have been through it.

Two years ago I sold a great deal more PGP on eBay (I have 4 online stores total, 3 besides eBay) and space in one antique mall. At that time I was not building in the shipping cost aka using the Free Shipping model. Unfortunately, in a one-month period several folks who purchased 'media' items (CD's, movies and books) dinged my stars for shipping - these are folks who paid for First Class and Media Mail rate. I lost my TRS at that time and was in danger of going into below standard which thankfully I avoided. It was very frustrating that folks who paid for heavy china and pottery had no issues with the shipping rates (which I know is not always the norm), yet the folks who paid between 1.50 - 3.00 for shipping really impacted my account.

I felt then that in order to protect my account and standing I needed to build in the shipping cost and go with the Free Shipping Model. For the past two years, I've had to move more and more PGP and vintage items out of my store because of this as this built-in cost in general is too high - I think, even when often I've had the lowest price in comparison to others who offer FS. I've had to sell more Media items and sometimes other items I normally wouldn't just to have sales, which again isn't uncommon. I was able to get my TRS back but at what cost.

My sales overall since building in the shipping cost has decreased over $3,000 each year (that is actual sales, not the shipping cost) on just eBay. That is a huge amount when you pay taxes and it is your own business.

I know in August eBay says that sellers can charge 'what they want' and we won't be penalized for this (no more dings), or we get dinged and they don't count (I'm not fully certain I understand how they will keep track of it). I'm also not certain I trust this as we've seen the programs change yearly - if they change next year, who is too say something retroactive won't bite us?

There are a few members that have successful stores that I do sometimes look at their listings - it is good to be humble... and they do a combo of both free shipping and charge for shipping.

I've been thinking of doing this on more items, especially the PGP - I've got a full set Purington Apple China, another set of Walker China, another set of Metlox something... that stuff will sit forever if I use free shipping I'm afraid.

But I'm also afraid to take the first steps and remove the free shipping option. I read a post recently about some buyers dinging sellers who shipped coast-to-coast, not understanding how expensive it was, even when they provide the shipping label showing the cost.

I know I have rambled ALOT... any feedback would be appreciated. My current model or lack-of is killing me. I have 8 bookcases full of PGP (with more coming in) that is unlisted.

This is the most I've ever spoken on any board. I think I like it here.

Thanks,

Cory

 

Hi Cory, I've asked the same recently on one of the boards. I don't sell a lot and have had to really watch those stars too. It seems that I often get buyers that are on the opposite coast and often ship heavy items so in order to offer free shipping I have to really pad the price.

My latest take on it is that even with the changes to DSRs it might be too soon to go back to calculated shipping. I think I'm overly cautious but low volume sellers such as myself have a lot to worry about these days.

 

When the big changes started, it seemed obvious to me that small sellers were not long for this world on ebay. I moved most of my selling off ebay. I would list a few things to help drive traffic to my other site. Last year, I barely listed on ebay but that was do to family illness and other life changing events.

I do help a neighbor who is learning to sell on ebay and I let him use my computer and camera when his antique computer ( I swear it must be windows 95 or 98) won't work. I think others have seen me post on his ID when he forgot to log out. So I have seen the changes and the complaints on the board for the lack of sales and the star dings.

When ebay promised automatic 5 stars for NOT communicating directly with the buyer after the sale, I decided, I was not playing the game anymore. I know the discount can really add up but I was tired of jumping through hoops and the anxiety that came with that. I weighed my peace of mind and enjoyment along with the customer service my buyers wouldn't get and the discount lost.

I refused to do free shipping on heavy items. On less expensive, smaller items, I will do the free shipping but if it is expensive, I charge. My neighbor has followed my lead. We both communicate a lot after the sale. Buyers seem to really appreciate that. We ship fast. We both get 5 stars for packing and we don't skimp on materials and we don't use newspaper. We both have/had 5 stars on shipping price. ( I say had because I didn't list much and I didn't have enough sales to have my stars show on ebay's last "judgement" day ) More often than not, the items are heavy and nobody has dinged the stars for the shipping price. I just checked and he still has 5 stars for shipping cost. I sold a heavy set of Mikas dishes last month that went coast to coast and the buyer was very happy. Shipping was close to $40.

It proves that people still want customer service. They appreciate communication, great packing and they don't mind paying the price of shipping when they get what they paid for.

Unfortunately, the lack of sales for small sellers seems to be more about the new Cassini search Algorithm. I don't believe there is a way to get around ebay's manipulation of search when it is weighted toward the big sellers.

 

I have TRS rating but only one benefit. That is because I will not free ship (unless it can go 1st class) or jump through the hoops. I do post tracking within 24 hrs, but I have always done that. I talk to my customers! To me customer satisfaction is #1.
The ONLY reason I want TRS status is the one thing you don't have to jump hoops for.... if I am reading the benefits correctly...Better Placement in search, I only got TRS status recently but I think I do see a difference in search placement. For me ebot, I mean ebay is the only venue that makes me $, but I hate how anxious I am about getting booted for some stupid reason, for me, as a small seller it is horrible to wonder all the time if the axe is gonna fall at any given moment. Like living under a Damocles sword..ARRGGGG

 

I have started to use free shipping on large heavy items because I don't want to get dinged for shipping, and also because I don't have to know exact dimensions or weight until the item actually sells. I build in estimated shipping cost to my price or opening bid, and I have actually sold quite a few items this way, and I haven't had any complaints. These items are usually fairly expensive with a good profit margin, so if I'm off on the amount I've estimated for shipping by $5-10 it's still ok with me.

I will also add that if people are unhappy with the shipping price and they can't ding that star, they'll just ding whatever star is available to them, which is gong to be item description, and this is the one that can hurt you the most.

 

I used to make fairly good money on Ebay and (gasp, I can actually name it here) Bonanza. Then they started changing the rules to favor buyers and bulk sellers of merchandise. Antiques and Collectibles started going down the tubes. Lately, I keep relisting the same few items just to keep my account active. Except for some items friends have asked me to sell, I haven't listed anything new of my own for months. I've been waiting to see how things fell out. My buyers always praised my packing - tissue on delicate items, lots of bubble wrap and sturdy boxes. My husband is a locksmith and the boxes I use have been shipped to us carrying very heavy locks so I know they are good. After postage started climbing, I started getting complaints even though I did the same thing as Cory and gave them what it cost me. Some people have the perception that if you sell online, you get some special deal from the PO. I constantly get generic Ebay messages telling me how I can improve my sales. Rah, rah. I'm not running a commercial business and that's all they want now.

Unfortunately, most people have not heard of Bonanza. The cost is 50 cents a month or even less. The percentage they take is minimal. Therefore, no advertising and no pushing the site on search engines. I think if enough sellers migrated to that site, we'd have some control over our future and we might help get it on the internet map. I don't sell much there, but it doesn't cost anything to just let the items sit there.

 

I appreciate the follow-up posts; it sounds like I am not doing anything different already than any other sellers that offer FS or a combo of both. I communicate with all my buyers about the date the Post Office gives on the Parcel Post items (versus the eBay date) and usually the PO delivers a day in advance or on that day. Folks have so far been thankful to get the communication - I hear often that customers hear nothing (which is what eBay suggests) from sellers.

I used to have the Best Offer option on everything which helped with sales - especially with dinnerware multiples, and I think it in general can be good for International Sales, but the offers that come in from Domestic buyers are stunning sometimes and I've found myself not including it. I'm slowing adding the option again. It surprises me that the majority of the poor offers come from other TRS or other active sellers who 'should know better.' An item priced $75.00 with free shipping - the only other one online anywhere at the time was $325.00 plus shipping. The offer was $1.00, plus they wanted to make sure I understood I paid shipping. So... I would take a total loss on shipping before fees? Sometimes I flat-out remove these PGP or vintage items totally and list them elsewhere or put them in the retail space.

I wanted to gauge what other sellers are doing as I'm forcing myself to do more as the year progresses - PGP is my main passion and I've somehow strayed from it due to postage. It can't sell if it isn't listed.

I know I can.. I know I can. And so can you!

 

Yes, PGP is my favorite or downfall (since I buy more than I sell!) but the same problems occur. Shipping is too much.

 

I went to mostly free shipping when someone on the opposite coast dinged my shipping cost even when exact shipping and a buyer emailed to let me know that they'd accidently left all 1's when they meant to leave 5's, both in a short period of time. I realized it wouldn't take much more to get me booted with the small amount I sell. After numerous calls to CS I did get the 1's removed but it was enough to put the fear of eBay in me.

I think the best answer I've read about when it's safe to go to calculated shipping has to do with what other adjustments eBay might make before the August date. Then of course there is the issue of not being able to trust that whatever is ok today won't be when the next site update comes along. They don't have a good track record in sticking to what they say.

 

Bev -

Thanks for the reminder on Bonanza! I had it on my 'to-do' list for the past several months and then it dropped off somehow. I've checked out the FAQs in the past and it seems pretty simple. I've added it to the new list I've got going.

Cory

 

I don't do free shipping, unless it's a small lightweight item and I want better placement and I know it will ship at flat rate padded envelope or first class or media. Otherwise, it's all calculated, domestic as well as foreign where I usually ship first class international with insurance. I have never gone to all free shipping.

My shipping DSr is 4.9 and has been as long as stars have been around. That's fine, as long as I remain TRS plus which only interests me for the ComBasPlus shipping rate when printed on eBay. I agree that when a buyer can't leave FB on shipping, they tend to move over to description.

I ship a lot of heavy complicated and fragile stuff. I don't think I've ever had anyone ask/complain about shipping cost either ahead or after purchases. But I do work to find the best options -- I use a lot of regional boxes, FedEx a lot, on occasion FedEx smart post when it's heavier and rural. Rarely parcel -- seems to have upped the cost to where it's usually a LOT more than FedEx. And often, priority with the discount is less than parcel. Many of my sales are to the west coast, but rarely does anything cost over $20 to ship -- $12 seems to be average.

As a buyer, it irritates me when a seller in a contiguous state insists on shipping flat rate (since I'm on the east coast) when calculated would be half price. Or when they insist on priority when it's large and goes into dim weight and makes the shipping $35 instead of $12 any other way. But then there's the poor seller from whom I just bought a platter for 9.99 with free shipping from PA and he packed it at 3 lbs. priority.

Not sure if the shipping options are impacting the OP's sales, or if it's simply that china and glass are overall weak on eBay (with exceptions of course). If someone really wants a piece of china, I don't think the shipping cost will deter them. As for resellers, the weak market makes it harder to resell regardless of how sellers work in/add their shipping.

So for now, I'm keeping calculated shipping with exceptions mentioned before. I don't see that a change will benefit me, and I'm certainly a small seller with many marginal items...

 

Birgittaw -

Thanks for the post. Each year I review the shipping services (USPS, UPS and FedEx) and unless I'm comparing estimates incorrectly, USPS has always come in as the cheapest service. I have noticed however, that many folks are using FedEx for extremely expensive items to heavier items, so somehow/somewhere I am getting my quotes incorrectly and will check into this further. I only recently heard about Regional Boxes as well and have not had time to check into this option yet (that special girl in my avatar pic is an old girl and requires much one-on-one attention and has special needs now). I don't use the normal Flat Rate boxes (they haven't worked for me and my types of items, but perhaps Regional will).

I shipped a 2-piece Dansk item from GA to WA a few weeks that wasn't all that heavy - I think 6 pounds or so. But because the box was oversized, the shipping was $38.50 at Parcel Post - that was insane. A normal package to CA or WA in that weight range would be about $15.00, but it was because the box was irregular they dumped it into the 20lb zone. I've had this happen before at least twice, even locally. Very frustrating. Whereas I would have made a decent profit, that ate it all up.

The info you shared is helpful.

 

I agree with you about the flat rate shipping on larger packages., it isn't fair to buyers. I always use calculated shipping on larger items and flat rate on small packages where it doesn't make a difference.

USPS is the least expensive for light weight packages and some large heavy packages if they are shipping within your same zone. I always found Fedex Ground and Fedex Home Delivery much less expensive for larger and heavier items than USPS and UPS. I read that they are going to be raising prices this summer so it will be interesting to see if they will remain the best deal. With Fedex, if you sign in with your account number, quotes are less expensive than if you get a quote without signing in.

Just in case you didn't know, Fedex insurance does not cover antiques. I use private insurance so I'm covered. You can buy private insurance for single packages online or you can pay a monthly premium and everything is covered.

 

Mill Cove Treasures -

I appreciate the info regarding obtaining a FedEx quote. I tried my example last night again that I used to ship my item to Washington recently and it still came up at $47.25 at the cheapest rate, but I was not logged in with an account, so I will set-up an account and try it the same info.

I did do more research last evening and have a little better understanding on Regional and Flate Rate boxes - I can def see where at times I could ship using them and save a little - lot, if I can fit the items in. I'm ordering some boxes both in Regional and Flat Rate so that I can play around with packing items in them before they sell so I know what works and doesn't. I do have a great number of vintage board games and I see that there is a specific box for those that could be helpful - packing those on my own are an adventure. I may have missed some opportunities to use Flat Rate normally in the past.

I noticed that Replacements is shipping single dinner plates in a pattern I researched recently to my location at $8.99 with Free Shipping (my jaw hit the floor) - how can a seller compete with that? I'm sure they negotiate special pricing, but still. I'm thinking now that perhaps they use the Regional Boxes.

 

Helpful hint: That big package of Dansk? Go back to the sale, and click on "print another label" and use the drop down to find FedEx (right below USPS). Put in dimensions and weight and see how it comes out. I can't imagine what you sold that would go over 84" though.... You DO use eBay's shipping labels, yes?

 

I switched to stamps.com a few years ago when I experienced substantial problems with my tracking numbers uploading to eBay through eBay's shipping labels. You could see the tracking info where it was entered (where you sometimes have to manually enter it), so there was nothing to enter, but my tracking percentage kept going up and down because of it and I was often on the phone with CS. It got so bad that I woke-up one morning and discovered eBay blocked out the tracking percentage for one entire month (tech couldn't fix it on their end) so I got a 'pass.'

If there is that big of a difference however for the larger packages between USPS and FedEx, that is crucial to selling antiques, vintage and PGP items and why I started this whole post. I absolutely will check-it out next time.

The Dansk package was 21 x 17 x 15, so it was nowhere nowhere near the 84" combined girth.

I would be correct in guessing I have to set-up a FedEx account for these sporadic pick-ups, is that right?

Thank you (all) for the info. I thought I knew a good amount about shipping, but I learned I did not.

 

Aha! Actually, you were one inch over the 84" girth Trimming one inch off would have saved you a bundle! It's length plus twice the height, and twice the width. Or 21+17+17+15+15 or 85". That one inch was fatal.

You do not have to get a FedEx account. I happen to have one, but eBay is actually just about a dollar less per shipment so I tend to use their shipping labels. eBay will bill you at the end of the month. So far, I haven't had any problems. If you're not comfortable with this, getting your own account is simple, and you can download Shiprush for FedEx which imports all your eBay sales and is free to use. In case of loss, I mark it all as "household goods."

I had problems with stamps a few years ago to import my eBay sales but did use them for first class international before eBay offered that option.

Doing a label for your package to Bellingham, WA which I figured is rural enough ended up at $30.57 home delivery with your original measurements. If I trim off an inch on the 21" side, and use the 7 lbs. weight, it's $13.41. I didn't change the origin zip but used my SC one so it could be a few pennies less for a GA one.

That's a HUGE difference, even with your oversize measurements. If you want FedEx pickup, you have to add a few bucks, but unless you live really rural or have transportation issues, there are plenty of drop off points.

 

Thank you, birgittaw - you're taking the time to do this research is very helpful. I have no problem with eBay billing me for anything, personally - very seldom has there been an error on my invoice. I hope others have/will gain something from the post. It is unfortunate that I never would ask this on eBay for fear it would be moved and I really wanted input from other seasoned sellers on the same forums who knew what I was talking about and knew what they were talking about.

I've already ordered Regional and Flat Rate boxes and will follow the steps above as well and begin using FedEx on the larger, heavy packages (I will compare them as well on some other items). I feel far more comfortable tackling the 'beasts' now.

 

I thought that this may be helpful to those who may wish to use or compare rates on USPS Regional or Flat Rate boxes. I was just starting to build my own chart when I found this:

http://www.stamps.com/whitepapers/priority-mail-rate-guide.pdf

Cory

 

This is my last post about this - I finished setting-up my FedEx account info today and wanted to add the last bit of FedEx info I found out while doing so in case it helps others, as well as an important part of the Zone Chart from USPS I left off previously:

Here is the actual chart that folks will need to use to get the zones from their area from the USPS:

http://postcalc.usps.gov/ZoneCharts/

Regarding FedEx:

I'm all signed up with FedEx as of today. I plugged in the dimensions for something that would normally ship USPS Parcel Post and it would cost $22.42, vs. $13.41 FedEx arriving in less time. Those savings are great. I would have saved about $250.00 last year on my built-in shipping for the heavier boxes across Country using FedEx.

I live in a very rural area and only have 2 FedEx Shipment Centers for large boxes within 25-30 miles, but even so, with the pick-up rates, I'll be saving more than shipping USPS Parcel.

For anyone else who has only used USPS, it is pretty simple to use FedEx - either through eBay or signing up with an account. If you have a local drop-off center (and most normal sized towns do) they are open till 6PM - 11PM.

And there are no special forms or plastic protective do-dad on the outside needed - you complete the info online like normal and print and tape it to the box like the everyday online USPS shipping labels - FedEx asks that you put a copy of the label inside is all. Easy, peasy.

I have said it again, but I can't thank the posters on this topic enough for helping out and taking the time to respond to my original post. Wishing you and all the members here great sales!

Cory