Featured Need help id'ing Native American Basket

Hi,
I'm new to this forum and I hope I am able to post correctly. Someone from ebay suggested that I try asking here about an item I posted to the boards there.

I'd appreciate any help on identifying this Native American Basket. It is quite rigid. It is decorated with a very basic diamond or Lozenge motif, with four around the sides alternating with four around the top. The basket is very tightly woven - I count 12 stitches per inch (or 24, counting the interlocking stitches - I'm not sure of the proper way to count, but I've shown a picture with a ruler). It coils outward from the bottom counter-clockwise, and has a ‘self-rim.’

Thanks so much in advance for looking.

 

Not NA that I know of..... the fiber looks like reeds....or fronds..

@Taupou
@2manybooks

 

Unfortunately I know nothing about plant materials and basket fibers. I did have to reduce the resolution of the pictures to allow them to upload. Would a higher resolution photo help in any way?

 

Also, could anyone give me a term for this type of stitching? It appears that each stitch covers 2 coils, with the stitches alternating on the rows; stepping up and stepping down. Please forgive my total lack of terminology to even describe it.

I have only found one or two other examples with this stitch type - here's a link to a current ebay listing with another similarly woven basket (except for the beading, of course); I realize sellers on ebay don't get it right all of the time either, but if you could give me feedback that would be of great help. Thanks again.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WEST-COAST...EAD-DECORATIONS-American-Indian-/222723261428

 

Not sure about this one. It might be from Swaziland, in southern Africa. They use that type of stitch on their coiled basketry, and the shiny fiber may be sisal, which they also use.

 

that eBlech seller is drinking some mighty fine cool aid....
it's a Lombok island basket...$20...if he's lucky !!!

 

EBay is not a good choice for identifying Native American baskets. On any given day, up to 80% of the baskets under Newly Listed, are misidentified. Most are not even Native American.

The example in the link above is a good example. As Komo said, it's Indonesian, from Lombok.

I would agree, the basket the OP shows is not Native American. The combination of the material used, and the construction technique is not that of any Native American tribe's basketry.

Rather than trying to use the internet, which can be confusing, misleading, and time consuming when attempting to learn more about baskets, I would suggest getting the book Art of the Basket, Traditional Basketry from Around the World by Bryan Sentace, which covers materials and techniques, as well as many of the baskets one is likely to encounter, which are usually misidentified as Native American Indian.

 

Gotta luv that book !!!!!

 

Welcome to Antiquers, @cmbl -- and thanks to the person who referred you from the eBay discussion boards or groups!

 

Thank you all for your time and information, and immediate response. I have to admit that I'm disappointed. I've lived both in southeastern Africa and in Thailand, so I have a bit of familiarity with baskets from both regions of the world, and it didn't seem at all similar to African or East Asian baskets, at least from the shape and design - and the tightness of the weaving.

I agree with you, most people on ebay don't know what they're talking about and I take it all with hefty dose of skepticism. I'm mainly a glass person myself, with an interest in pottery. I have at least 20 linear feet of reference books in those subjects. Along the way I started collecting a bit of Native Pottery, and now that has seeped into wanting to become more familiar with baskets.

Somewhere I picked up a reprinted copy of "Indian Basketry" by George Wharton James, which is rather offensive in its colonialist condescension, and tediously wordy. Still, its figure 279, with the same design motif as mine, made me think I was going in the right direction.

Thanks again to all. I'm still interested if anyone has any more specific information on it.

 

Dear cmbl.....that's not even the same design structure...
the drawing on page 195 clearly shows the elongated rectangles lined up on the same row in 2 colors , whereas your baskets design is one color and the squares are staggered .

This book , my copy...looks almost mint , as it is one of my least used reference books.
Page 11, shows a Haida woman and 'her' basket work....but on page 260 there is a classic stunning photo of Alaskan..( Tlingit ) baskets.
The basket items in both photo's are the same Tlingit basket work....no Haida baskets there at all.
I know books can have errors in them.....innocent ones for sure, but the one I pointed out is glaring.



At best , your basket may have some minor similarity to the shape of a Panamint bottle neck basket...but that's it...that's all.

To further your knowledge of basketry world wide , Taupou's suggestion is the right direction to proceed.

 

Since not NA, can any of the basket folks take a guess at where this example might be from?

Also, welcome Cmbl! Would love to see you on the pottery/glass forum. Always happy to have another set of experienced eyes over there.

 

Design motifs are not always the best criteria for determining the origin of a basket, particularly fairly simple motifs. The materials used, and the techniques of manufacture can be more helpful clues. There are many references for Native American basketry, but it is not as easy to find good sources of information for other areas of the world. The one that @Taupou has recommended is a good start, and there is a decent bibliography in the back.

I have not been able to find a specific term for the particular coiling stitch used on your basket, (which is frustrating). I can't find my copy of J. M. Adovasio's "Basketry Technology: A Guide to Identification and Technology" (1977, Aldine), which might have a unique term (another source of frustration). But it is not a stitch we see much (if at all) in Native American work. It might be helpful in the identification process if you can carefully part some of the stitches and see what the foundation of the coil is made of - whether it is a single rod of something, several rods, or a bundle of fibers.

One thing George Wharton James did was to introduce a whole generation of crafters to the idea of making their own "Indian baskets". The field can be complicated by eccentric practitioners of more or less skill, using a variety of non-traditional materials. There is also the more recent complication of deliberate copies of Native American designs being made by artisans from Pakistan and other locations, usually coiled styles.

 

Thanks for the welcome, and again, for your help.
@Lucille.b , I'll check in occasionally on the glass and pottery forum, for sure.

 

Any idea on where these might be from? Any information would be really appreciated! They are amazing herringbone type weave, very tight, feels as though it could even hold water!

 

as a new member...pls let me point out a couple of things to help u on your way forward..

u'v posted on a 3 year old thread...
ur pics are too small and upside down
u don't give sizes or where they are located or how long uv had them

pls start a new thread with the information we need to help you ....

and look at the original post or my post from Oct 2019 to get a feel for what kind of photo's we need here...

 

Yes, please - a new post (list it in the "Tribal" category"), with larger photos (under 1 mb, but large enough to see) of each basket separately. Please include views of the rims, the bottom, closeups of the stitches and materials, as well as an indication of the size. There are posts in the "Support and Testing" forum (near the top of the home page) that are helpful if you have trouble loading photos.

 

Better to start a new thread, as suggested, but in case you don't....they are Mexican, made by the Tarahumara of the Copper Canyon region.