Fancy NWC stuff here!

Discussion in 'Auctions' started by Potteryplease, Sep 23, 2024.

  1. Potteryplease

    Potteryplease Well-Known Member

    Wow-- truly a 'museum quality' auction!
     
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  2. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    I kept an eye on basically the entire auction. It was a good one to watch unfold live. Interesting items and interesting to see the prices they brought. I did notice it was multiple collections. I went after one of the horn totem spoons but it ended up going one or two increments above my bid. I thought there was still meat on the bone but I knew if it entered my hands I’d never actually sell it. I try to buy the thing I know I’ll keep on the side of being a real strong value. I shouldn’t necessarily allow myself to keep expensive things.
     
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  3. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    I don’t know enough about prices for specific NWC artists to know what items were deals in that category. I saw the lot of Charles Russell sterling silver figures sold at what could be considered a deal. There were seven and they theoretically would each sell for north of 1k. I think those went for a bit under 4k. So if you were patient there could have been a couple grand profit. Some of the basket lots looked like they could have maybe been broken up for profit. The Yupik artifact lot I might have bid on if it could have been shipped. That could have been broken up for a healthy profit at $800. I nearly bid on the Mimbres bowl. That would be a money maker I think but I wanted it a bit cheaper than it went. Those were just some things I saw and was interested in.

    Are you inferring the pendants were made by a regular old American vs. a Native American?
     
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  4. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    I think the house looses on a very regular basis. They win more than they lose but they lose. They aren’t all massive losses but they lose at least a few times every auction or sale in my experience. I’ve made some pretty nifty gains off their misses and I make them quite regularly. I think it’s more cost effective to lose sometimes than it is to get everything exactly right in the long run. Sometimes they really blow it though where I’m sure they wish they hadn’t.

    I talked to a sale runner this year who said he’s missed several 100k+ pieces of artwork in his career. I don’t know what they sold for but it was damn clear it was nowhere even close to their worth.
     
  5. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    At least they weren't the guys who sold a genuine DaVinci for $30,000 a while ago. (or at least so people say - resold for a bundle later)
     
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  6. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    No, they are pure NWC 1st Nations......... but not out of Canada , where I'm much more familiar with the siggys and markings than I am with the American native artists.
    The NWC artists out of Wa. & Alaska, other than the well known names.... is where my expertise is less than stellar.
     
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  7. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    Yes , some of the basket lots , still had meat on the bone.
     
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  8. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    Claro!
     
  9. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

  10. J Dagger

    J Dagger Well-Known Member

    Ah sorry it’s Spanish. Kind of means gotcha or understood. At least I think it does, lol. That brings me to another question though. Can you differentiate between Canadian and American made stylistically in this instance? Conversely is it just that you would have likely recognized the maker if they were Canadian made and therefore they are likely American made? Just curious.
     
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  11. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    De Nada !

    It's the siggy that I don't recognize ...

    The styles... are mostly regional , but early on many artists were trained in styles not their own , or carved in several different styles thru contact with other carvers not of their tribal affiliation. ( see the K'san school of carving..)
    Traditionally , artists were taken under the wing of family members , like an uncle or grandfather and instructed in their own clan crests and the designs of their culture , but as they grew to understand and become proficient in their own designs , better artists would attempt to master and learn a host of different form line designs.

    I once possessed two pendants by the Haida master artist Don Yeomans. Both were utterly true to Coast Salish formline designs , that without his signature , I would have known what they were..... but not who made them.

    I can recognize Salish design from Washington State , and Tlingit design from Alaska.... but am not fluent in all the carvers from those areas.

    And then there are the outliers .... for instance the late Tsimshian Artist Danny Dennis.
    Danny was born in 1951, and his crest was Frog. He was a self-taught artist. While his grandfather, Bert Dennis, was of Haida origin from Alaska, his grandmother, Elsie Dennis, was Gitksan, so Danny has spent a great deal of his life in Hazelton, BC.

    [​IMG]
    His style is a Gitksan, Haida, Tsimpshian mix, that is all his own , and I can pretty much recognize it on sight.

    There , like the above , are many exceptions , many self taught 1st nations artists , & I'm still learning.
    So, from time to time......... I can be so wrong , it's embarrassing !!!! :wacky::wacky::confused::confused::arghh:
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2024
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  12. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    but not that often...........:cool:
     
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  13. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    True. Also helpful are time and experience.
    See one Danny Dennis piece, you might not figure out how to recognize him - but see a dozen, and you'll know. And there are resemblances passed down through families, a "Hunt style" or a "Davidson style" and those can also be passed on from a mentor to an apprentice.
    And there are exceptions, and exceptions to the exceptions.
    My wife and I play a little game at museum and gallery openings - see a piece across the room, try to guess who did it. I'm very often right....and very often wrong. But I think I'm right more often than I was 10 years ago, or 20.
     
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  14. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    a "Hunt style" or a "Davidson style" and those can also be passed on from a mentor to an apprentice.

    Ohhh, indeed !!

    I know a Nuu Cha Nulth artist , trained by Davidson...... & after that his work took on a decidedly Haida look.
    & the late John Livingston.... non native trained by the Hunt family..... if his siggy is not there..... good luck trying to figure out... ' which ' Hunt made it !!!
     
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  15. Potteryplease

    Potteryplease Well-Known Member

    This is all very true for Pueblo pottery too. Each Pueblo has shape, design, material and process idiosyncrasies. Once you've learned them, they're not hard to spot. And within a specific Pueblo, whether a larger one with many 'famous' families, or a smaller one where one or two famous potters (Maria, for example) still cast long shadows, there are familial patterns too.

    Marriage and relocations between groups can similarly lead to meldings of traditions and sometimes even to new sub-styles that then spread.
     
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