Featured Very Excited, Not Sure Where to Put this...18thC Mystery boxes?

These were just sitting on top of a box, the square caught my eye first and then I started thinking very interesting thoughts. Unfortunately both are damaged in a major way, but if these are indeed 18thC I don't care. A whole EURO each!

The square is small, just big enough to sit in the palm of my hand. It features two miniature paintings, and a monogram with a coronet. The 4th panel is damaged to the point of mystery. Its brass, with a silk interior, and studded with ruby and diamonds. Whether the stones are paste, rock, or actual semi/precious stones, I have no idea.

The mystery is its obviously missing something on top, so I'm having an impossible time finding out what this is. Its not a pill, snuff, or trinket box. With the silk inside its not any sort of inkwell or desk piece, perhaps a ring box? I've also looked at it being part of an elaborate clock, music box, or similar. Nothing has turned up.



The paintings: The words on the top appear to be German. The woman's says 'Fried ernebrt', and the other broken sword/palm leaf (I think?) says just 'Fried.'. I tried running it through a translator and it occasionally came up as 'Peace again' before going back to nonsense. Is this old german with a peach message?


The damaged panel:

The monogram: I tried looking for German coronets and found one or two similar but couldn't find out what title they matched to. Interestingly the gems are white not pink for only this panel.



The top: Something is missing, no idea what. There's also that sort of bar, again no clue.


One of the feet is loose, and actually unscrews.


The inside: This convinced me to buy it, I've seen similar 18th Century boxes on ebay and they all have these types of interiors.


Next Box incoming!​

 

This is a bit more of a mystery. Odd shape, opens at the bottom, also seems like its only one part of a larger something. Also brass, with 2 (should be 4, again bad damage) miniature paintings, with 'diamonds' and enamel. The top is crowned with more diamonds and pearls, the top one teeth testing as real. The scenery seems like its newer? I've not seen examples of this kind of brass older than 1870. But the other pieces of it seem to be inkeeping with the 1700s.

At the bottom half on each side, its got one side with a green gem, and another side with a twiddly spinny bit that doesn't seem to do anything. The green gem is on the side that opens, almost like its a push latch, but it doesn't do anything either. The other two sides are missing.

What on earth is it? How old is this? So many questions.



The paintings: One sun, one crown. No writing. I'm assuming the other two had a moon and another crown perhaps?


The top:

The other two panels:

The bottom: Seems to have something missing as well, there's a tiny bit snapped off on each foot?

The interior:


So what are these? How old are they? Are they semi/precious or are they paste? Where are they from? Should I be looking at coronets and would that mean they belonged to nobility?
HELP
My best guess is that they're 18th Century boxes, part of something else. The eiffel tower one seems newer with the brass but i can't date it as newer with everything else accounted for, unless this is a marriage of older bits?

Thank you in advance!​

 

I have absolutely no idea what these boxes were used for.
My guess is the box shaped one maybe contained a peace symbol?
German had lots of wars going on through the centuries, in fact, Germany was 100s of small different states for a long while in its history, but you should be able to pinpoint the exact war if you look ar the age these boxes have.
From what I can see, the white stones on the cone shaped box LOOK like REAL rose cut diamonds!
congratulations on your amazing find! I ll be lurking around for the ideas of other members

 

The diamonds look like they're actually diamonds, but might be legit Rhine stones too if these are German. The stones are clear quartz and if cut like diamonds might resemble them too, especially since the backing silver has doubtless gone dark with age.

 

I'll never say no to diamonds!
I wonder if the square one is a husband/beau war keepsake of some kind? It would make sense that the damaged panel is another monogram if so, to be left with the lady.

@daveydempsey no writing there, though after a clean something may turn up! On the fence on cleaning this one honestly. I might polish the stones with a Qtip and water and leave it at that.

@evelyb30 I suppose this is where a gem tester comes in handy! I think I'll have to get one...

Update on the cone: the green gem is in fact a lever to open the bottom, but it sticks so escaped my notice. The twirly thing spins something on the inside that's long snapped off, just leaving a pathetic bit of metal to spin Perhaps the sun is in reference to the Sun King? The figures are really interesting, a lady reposing, a man in a turban type hat, a servant with wine and a servant with wheat. I was wondering about Russian origin, or perhaps middle eastern with the turban? But the crown seems very European...

 

Don't have a clue about either-but def two of the most intriguingly mysterious pieces I've seen here.
PS-Makes me want to move to Europe,Oregon's gorgeous but a bit boring re antiques.

 

To be honest, this is probably one of the finds of the year. I doubt I'll have this kind of luck again! What was interesting about this vide grenier is the lack of professional stalls. There were a couple of semi professionals and a few junk dealers, but no one with the polished pieces laid out nicely. Perhaps that left the jewels to me!

 

Looking into the crowns on the cone box: The painted coronet looks similar to a French Marquis (although Austria-Hungary, and Russia have almost identical according to wikipedia, as well as Germany), and the crown on top is the King's crown.

 

Really neat!

 

Id have jumped on those with both feet ! They both sure feel 18th century to me. Fascinating little things. I wonder if they were reliquaries of some sort ?

 

I think @daveydempsey got a sharper image than I was able to....

​

 

The only things I've seen similar to the obelisk/pyramid piece would be a reliquary or a clock.18th to early 19th century pyramid clocks would've had a clock on one of the sides,or at the very top of the structure would be a horizontal rotating numbered dial mounted in a ball.
I'll dig up some pics tomorrow-nighty-night & congrats !

 

That would be a shame with such wonderful items

 

Looking at reliquaries, there is a resemblance! But the size difference is pretty major, they all seem to be regular box size, even the portable ones. I did wonder if it was an ornament broken off a pyramid clock, but why on earth would a clock need a box this size/shape?

I'll clean up the bottom a little and see if I can see those marks, in the photos it does look to be an 'RR'.

My thoughts exactly!

 

Stunning boxes, Rachel! Once in a lifetime finds!

Those are collector's items!!!

The first could have contained a jewel that symbolised peace between formerly feuding German lands. As Dessert said, Germany used to have many (semi-)independent kingdoms, principalities, etc. and quite a few hotheads.

Could you show us the texts?
Fried' is short for Frieden, peace. It is quite common to just use Fried, especially for older pieces, before High German was standardised. It is also used in poetry.

ernebrt is a word I don't know, nor can I make sense of it. So I wonder if it could say something else?

The second box was made for a specific item, but what was it? It is just as stunning.

Be sure to have all the stones tested. There could be some very nice surprises there.

It could be an 'Erlauchtkrohne', literally a crown for someone who is addressed as 'illustrious'. Those were generally earls.

The one below is the crown of the children of earls, with an ermine tail on top, but the earl (daddy ) would have an orb on top:


https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlaucht

 

@Any Jewelry here is the text!


I'm very excited about them. We're going into the city on wednesday to test/sell the gold tesbih beads so I'll take these along to get the gems tested.

I'll do some research on the peace jewel and see what I can find.

I'm so sad the cone is so damaged, it feels like the missing plaques would really fill a lot of the holes. If one is german, are they both likely to be? The crown on top looks French, not German to me. Also I was mistaken in thinking the Sun King was Louis 16, it was Louis 14, probably too early for this to be a contempary reference. I'll give it a little clean around the crown before taking it in for testing. Its got 100 years of dust and grime around those pearls!​

 

Thanks, it says "Fried ernehrt". In modern High German that would be Frieden ernährt, Peace fed/nurtured, which is why she (Peace) is holding a wheatsheaf and other produce in her left hand, and a palm frond (peace) in her right.

 

Oops, hoped I could edit the message before you saw it lol! Thanks for the correction, so definitely peace related! hmmm.

Is it possible to roughly date these, based on the little info we have?